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  • Cloud Culture - The Obvious Obstacle?

    Steve 11:59 am on March 9, 2010 | 2 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: british council, charles leadbeater, cloud culture, , mandelson, mobile, orange, web access

    The tendency for people to shift their computing life into ‘the cloud’ is rolling on at great pace. More and more people are trusting

    • their email to Gmail,
    • their photos to Flickr,
    • their back-up to Amazon or Dropbox,
    • their documents to Google Docs

    and are using collaborative platforms for sharing data, from Soundcloud for music files to Google Docs for spreadsheets and text.

    This has been matched by a corresponding conversation about the impact of ‘Cloud’ ideas, technolgy and infrastructure on our ideas of culture and creativity. There are wonderful conversations happening about notions of ownership, what happens when a cultural entity can be made freely available to all, when people can actually build on the work of artists in every field, remix and mash-up other people’s work… (More …)

     
    • Jo Ind 12:07 pm on March 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Love the line about Mandelson and his big internet scissors. Great image.

    • ponor 12:54 pm on March 9, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I used to be on Orange…Am now not for same reason ( sim-only) Also I just couldn’t afford it…and so don’t have an up-to-date phone but a much reduced outlay. Cloud is not good for some businesses – there are quite vocal concerns about security issues re the possibilty of hacking. Love the scissors analogy too :)

  • Open Letter to Lib-Dem Lord Clement-Jones re: Web Blocking.

    Steve 1:41 pm on March 3, 2010 | 9 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , lib-dem, lord clement-jones, open rights group, org, writetothem

    [I just sent this in response to the Open Rights Group's call to contact the Lib-Dem and Conservative Lords over their proposed amendment to the Digital Economy bill allowing sites to be blocked under suspicion of enabling the transfer of copyright materials.]

    Dear Lord Clement-Jones,

    Along with everyone I know who works in IT/the internet and the music industry (yes, ‘everyone’), I am entirely opposed to the digital economy bill – the assumptions it makes about the relationship between people making a living online and the rights of media conglomorates to continue peddling an outmoded understanding of how digital assets are best exploited in a world where distribution and even marketing can be done for free and revenue gathered at many different stages of the process.

    As a musician, writer, teacher, university lecturer and owner of an independent record label, I have found the free flow of information online to be utterly vital in freeing me from the inethical, counter-creative and monopolistic practices of the big media entities (such as major record labels) and allowing me to build a SME, to partner with other SMEs in broadening the base of the UK online economy.

    The web is enabling a switch in the recording industry away from a state where a tiny percentage of ‘lottery winners’ sell millions of records and everyone else remains hopelessly in debt to a label who lend them money, spend it on themselves and hold onto copyright beyond the point where the loans have been paid back. It’s unsustainable and the wonder of the digital economy is that artists are able to manage that themselves – that we’ve moved from hundreds of people selling millions of records to thousands upon thousands of individuals selling hundreds or thousands of recordings, but more importantly, doing so in a creatively and economically sustainable way without giving away their rights.

    For those people, the distribution networks on the web that the Digitial Economy Bill with either explicitly or inadvertently shut down are a vital resource for connecting with an audience at a time when the cost of conventional marketing channels (often owned by those same media giants that were acting in such an anti-creative way under the old model) are prohibitively high, enough so to guarantee that all projects beyond those with outside leverage (read: big media backing) will lose money.

    In the new economy that doesn’t need to happen. I and my peers can make the music we love, find and audience and allow a range of entry points for them to contribute financially to the ongoing production and performance of that music, and it works. It works time and time again.

    At a time when major label entities who are fighting the internet are falling apart (look at EMI’s current crisis), independent musicians are thriving. No-one is making millions, but no-one needs to. The right to become insanely rich by exploiting the intellectual property of others is not something that should be enshrined in law to the detriment of the sustainability of the tens of thousands of people making a healthy, legal, creative and culturally significant living through the internet.

    The Digital Economy Bill threatens tens of thousands of people’s livelihoods, while protecting the interests of a handful of very rich people at the top of the big media food-chain, while peddling a series of falsehoods and misused statistics about the state of play for Britain’s creative industries. Please, withdraw the nonsensical amendment with regard to ‘web blocking’ – it’s counter to the good of Britain’s digital economy,

    Yours sincerely,

    Steve Lawson
    http://www.stevelawson.net

     
    • ponor 2:09 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you for writing this open letter. I hope it will be read and understood in the spirit of sharing and helping everyone to achieve their potential through creativity hard work and committment.

    • Mike Arthur 2:31 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      My response:

      Dear Lord Clement-Jones,

      As a proud member of the Liberal Democrat party I was pretty appalled to see that you’ve lent your support to this web blocking amendment blocking sections of the web.

      I’m a software engineer and have provided consultancy and training to various companies around Europe. This amendment is not only violates the principles of how the internet should work but is also not even slightly practical to enforce.

      The internet, as a technology, detects any efforts to “block” a site as a failure and simply routes around it. It’s literally impossible, without removing the source, to ever prevent access to certain material. Through the use of anonymous relays, proxy servers, VPNs, SSH tunnels and a swathe of other techniques it’s trivial for any semi-technical individual to circumvent any blocks and also encrypt their data, meaning it’s impossible for anyone other than the source to detect that they have done so.

      If there is illegal material on the internet then the ONLY way to deal with it is to shut it down at the source. If that source is beyond the UK’s legal jurisdiction then it simply cannot be blocked. It is not possible to do so, it has never been possible to do so and never will be. Any block or form of restriction on the internet needs only one person to be able to break through and then they can let anyone else access it.

      Now that I’ve covered the technological reasons why this bill cannot be enforced I’d like to cover the sociological reasons.

      This bill gives the government terrifying levels of ability to censor and block material they don’t like being present. It is already a crime to violate copyright law by unauthorised distribution, I have to ask why another law is needed to enforce this?

      Thanks for your time, I hope I’ve convinced you to withdraw your support for this “blocking” measure.

      Yours sincerely,
      Mike Arthur

    • Miles Dumble 6:19 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Excellent comment.
      Shame It passed :(
      The Lib Dems have achieved what seemed impossible and made the Digital Economy Bill even worse…

    • Richard Gadsden 6:21 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      You might want to go to http://act.libdems.org.uk/group/libdemsforsomedecentitpolicy where Lib Dems are trying to organise an internal opposition to this

    • Mike Hillier 6:47 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Brilliantly and succinctly put, with excellent additional evidence from Mike Arthur. I can’t see how the Digital Economy Bill is going to help build any economy at all. I can understand the need to protect copyright holders, but this bill fails to address that issue in any enforceable way.

    • Dale Strickland-Clark 7:00 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Brilliant. I wrote to Lord Clement-Jones but had neither the time nor the words to put it as well as you and Mike Arthur. Well done.

    • Mike Arthur 11:24 pm on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks for all the lovely words people. Hopefully this gets sorted!

    • Aden Davies 1:26 am on March 4, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Now I think Digital Inclusion is a very important topic and I would not want it hijacked…but…Digital Exclusion may just be more important.

      http://net.digitalengagement.org/profiles/blogs/what-would-you-ask-nick-clegg

    • Bridget Fox 8:37 am on March 5, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      25 Lib Dem PPCs sign letter asking Lib Dem Parliamentarians to think again on Digital Economy Bill http://ldv.org.uk/18185

  • iPad - Why Bad Marketing Is Worse Than Bad Product Design.

    Steve 9:43 pm on February 1, 2010 | 16 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , ipod, laptop, marketing, Technology

    Of course I’m going to write a post about the iPad – isn’t it obligatory if you’re a blogger?

    First up, I need to say that I don’t really get the way that people feel affronted when a product falls short of their expectations. Crap products are made all the time, and in a supply and demand environment, we’re all free not to buy them. If the iPad turns out to be a pile of crap, we don’t have to buy it, Apple will be left with loads of them unsold and will have to go back, do some better market research and make something we want.

    That said, I do take issue with the way things are marketed – marketing is a very powerful force, and not generally held as a conversation. So when someone makes statements about something that are patently untrue, and does it with the weight of a multi-million dollar marketing budget behind them, I get a little antsy.

    So, the iPad – what don’t I like about it? (More …)

     
    • Andy 10:01 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      yes. spot on steve. i have been wondering what all the fuss is about. it is literally just a massive ipod touch. throw osx on there and we’d be getting somewhere but no, for now it is seemingly pointless – perhaps a gateway to something interesting, apple’s marketing has really done the business again.

    • Mike 10:16 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I’ll be getting one: for my mum. She’s a consumer – wants to see pictures (Flickr), show pictures, send emails, browse the web, check the diary, but is daunted by the family iMac in case she “breaks something”. So for her this would be pretty sweet I reckon.

      • Steve 10:19 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I think you’ve hit on it there, Mike – it’s great as a device for people who want limitations – who are scared of the big web, for techphobic mums, grannies, people recovering in hospital from two broken arms… Though for them, the absence of a camera is a real pisser – that’s prime Skype demographic…

        So the slogan: “the iPad, for your mum. if she’s scared of the web” :)

        • Mike 10:24 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

          Clearly your mum is NOT scared of the interweb. ;)

    • jim 10:53 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I think it could be a boon for content producers as an interface extension. I played a gig this weekend where I was standing on the stage above and behind the keyboard player, who was running his synth software off his MacbookPro. At one point, he had a graphical representation of a B3 organ on the screen – drawbars and everything. What if it was running on an iPad and he could use the touchscreen to adjust parameters realtime, in addition to whatever controls he has programmed on his Midi controller?

      Dedicated control units for audio and video production can be really expensive. iPad + the right software plugged into my Final Cut Studio system at work could potentially expand my system’s usability and flexibility by leaps and bounds, at (hopefully) much less expense than dedicated control units… There’s already software like this available for the iPhone…

      But as a general computing/entertainment device? No thanks. It’s not even 720p resolution, it doesn’t look like I can plug it into my TV to stream video to a bigger screen (something I do almost daily with my laptop and Hulu), no flash support (sorry Apple, but if you don’t support flash, you don’t have a complete internet experience), and I don’t want to read a book by having to stare at a light source.

      So yeah, I definitely don’t see it as a primary computing or communication device (at least not right now), but it could become a great hardware extension for content producers, if Apple will let the software come out…

    • ponor 11:08 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Yes, agree, me too, spot on as usual Steve. “…Everything about it says “walled garden”: do it our way, use our platform, our software…” = Sorry, but that’s just useless . If this is the future I don’t want it.

    • Steve 11:11 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Hi Jim… so you think the iPad could be, or touch screen could be? Cos at the moment, all the development needs to go through the App Store’s SDK, which seems to me like a really clumsy way to enable software development. Surely open standards, available on all touch screen devices would be better for us as users?

      I agree that touch interfaces for music application will be so awesome – the idea of the Kaoss pad as a plug in rather than a hardware thing is so so awesome. Especially if we had pressure sensitivity as well – the 3rd touch axis – could be all kinds of fun. But if you’ve got that without a keyboard, you’ll need a stand for it, and you won’t be able to type commands, and there’s no support for additional peripherals unless the software to power them goes through the app store. We end up with an insane situation like we have with the iPhone where I can use an Apple Bluetooth Keyboard with a Nokia N-series phone, but NOT with the iPhone or iPod touch! And the people with the know-how can’t just write the software to make it happen, because Apple don’t want them to, even though the software available for jailbroken iPhones shows that it’s pretty easy to do…

      So YAY for touch interfaces, BOO for crappy development strategies. :)

      • jim 12:01 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Yeah, I guess mainly touch screen… I don’t know quite how to explain it, but touch screen plus a little of that extra functionality/usability mojo that I think I see in the iPad that I don’t necessarily see in other devices. I mean, we could have audio or video control software developed for the wacom pen tablets, but as far as I know, there’s not much available to do with wacom tablets beyond graphical work.

        And Apple’s closed system probably will be a bit of a hinderance, but there is audio control software available for the iPhone already. I’ve seen guys control MoogerFoogers with their iPhones, and there’s apparently Protools control software out there, too. So I don’t know that things are completely hopeless in that regard…

        …and I was thinking the same thing about a virtual Kaoss pad…

        • Steve 12:57 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

          I love some of the iPhone apps that I’ve seen for MIDI control – really cool ideas… maybe Apple should just’ve made a bluetooth big display for the iPhone… my ideal set up would actually be a phone as the ‘brain’ to a bigger set up, powering a screen and keyboard… that way I can take the ‘brain’ anywhere, and hook it up wherever I go. Replace the screen with a projector, and we’re really in business. :)

          I’m sure people will do lots of cool things with the iPad. There’ll be loads of cool apps, and much merriment will be had. These things are never black and white, good/bad, angel/demon scenarios. Apple aren’t stupid. They aren’t about to release something that’s completely useless! And as I said, they’re welcome to release whatever they want – if they described this as ‘a badass MIDI controller that you can read your email on, and if you’re really persistent, type short emails back’ then I’d be thinking it was an awesome realisation of that description ;)

          • tim from Radio Clash 1:42 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

            Yes – if an iPad DJ app Pacemaker-style existed I’d give it a try then.

            I’d srsly doubt it’d have the oomph and storage without removable cards or somethign would still restrict it to the Air ‘poser’ category (I call it the iToy)…yes my partner has an Air (as well as a MacBook Pro, the previous Mac Book, a Touch, several iPods) and I’ve had to play with it and it freezes like crazy. SLOW. I’d guess the iPad would either be similar or very restricted – hence no multitasking…

            Doubt video or audio DJ/VJ apps would appear then.

    • Steve 11:41 pm on February 1, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      …of course, everything here can be undone by them fixing it in later versions. Then we ‘re just back to Apple’s standard screwed up modus operandi of releasing half-arsed Beta hardware and letting the early adopters soak up their development costs… grrr ;)

    • tim from Radio Clash 1:31 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      The biggest sin I find is Apple markets their stuff as for ‘creatives’ – now yes if you have a high-end MacBook pro and the high-end salary to affordit, that’s true (although the whole ‘Mac for Video’ has been eroded severely recently by better PC and Avid systems – also Adobe Flash CS4 on a Mac has ALWAYS run like a dog, web design/dev on a Mac isn’t fun, I do it regularly) – but the Sony ‘you don’t need that’ mindset has been copied by Apple recently removing Firewire and now USB…it does seem like a dumbing down of the computer usage, which is weird since the old-school Apple freaks used to be as mad as the PC or Unix lot for diving in and hacking stuff around…so Apple catered for that. It does seem like they are targeting the Argos/Curry’s mass market aspirational set, rather than the hobbyists of old.

      And yes when Apple muscled in on podcasts with iTunes that’s when they were doomed – well the indie ones were since they are all about ‘premium’ pro broadcast content, and this whole idea of creativity and the little man having a voice is actually wrong, if you look at what they DO rather than what they SAY – like the featured podcasts etc, who was allowed onto iTunes, etc.

      Less Ghandi as per one of their ads, more Mussolini…

      That’s not to say Apple is useless, I’ve had many iPods since the iRivers and other devices were more crap than Apple’s – although don’t get me started on iTunes, it is a simple product which can actually do a lot and it seems they are adding stuff to it rather than taking stuff away…weird how they seem to be doing the opposite in the other divisions?

    • John Worthington 1:36 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      First, I realize that your wouldn’t be a proper blogger without weighing in on a device you haven’t seen in person or played with. That said, i wouldn’t get too wrapped around the axel until Apple ships the thing snd we get to touch and feel it.

      You’re really complaining about the lack of a camera? Doesn’t every cell phone you own have a camera?

      From what I’ve read, the onscreen keyboard is no worse than what I’m used to on my iPhone and I manage to send a large number of emails and tweets from there. According to reports, the iPad will work with the Apple bluetooth keyboard as well as the keyboard dock. But most of the time I don’t have to carry one when i don’t need it.

      The audio in solution will likely get address through the dock connector as it has been for the iPod Touch. Likewise quality audio out. Granted USB would have been nice. But getting all of the drivers to run properly is a chore. Even on a Mac.

      The iPhone SDK isn’t bad, so I don’t see that as a huge limitation on programming the thing. And it’s open in the sense that I can compile and run any piece of software I want on it for $99US.yrs., Not as good as free, but I used to spend far more than that on development tools. Yes, I have to use the App Store to sell things, which means I need Apple’s blessing. But selling software anywhere but your own site requires someone’s blessing. The same is true for other media. Just look at the recent Amazon Macmillian kerfluffle. After looking at some of the stuff that Google is doing with HTML 5, that’s a brilliant solution as well. The Google Voice app really does feel like an app, not a web page.

      As a developer, musician, and artist, multitouch excites me in much the same way a graphic display and a mouse did in 1984. I think it’ll be huge. Will the iPad be perfect. I doubt it. But it’s an important step. And they could wait forever to get something perfect. I’d rather pay a little now and get started. I have some big plans for it as a controller. But I’m reserving judgement until I get my hands on one.

      • Steve 1:58 am on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        John,

        Thanks very much for the perspective – my comments are of course based on the keynote, which is unlikely to be underselling it, as this video shows –

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZS8HqOGTbA

        I hope you’re right – I don’t ever want things to be ‘not as good as they could be’ – the bluetooth keyboard would be nice (would be nicer on the iPod Touch, especially if Apple made a foldable keyboard – mini laptop!)

        But I’m still completely unconvinced by the potential of this device to repair that break in the producer/consumer divide – as I said, by far my biggest complaint about it. It breaks that in a way that Netbooks don’t, that even, as you point out, mobile phones don’t! (I wonder if, like the iPhone keyboard, I’ll still be about 40% faster typing using predictive text on a number pad – even on my N97 which has a QWERTY keyboard, I use the number pad on screen to type… T9 is possibly the coolest development in typing interfaces in decades :) )

        Anyway, like I say, I’m glad to hear that from a developer perspective (or at least, your perspective as a developer) it look’s like it’ll work… Would’ve been nice to be able to dual boot it with the Window touch OS, or some future Linux touch version (is there one yet?)… Maybe the jailbroken version will kick ass, and the hackers will save the day again ;)

    • Darren 12:14 pm on February 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      We had a discussion about the iPad at the last Northamptonshire Geek Meet… and as you can imagine, the room (pub lounge) was divided. Interestingly enough, no-one put forward your argument that the iPad breaks the content creator/consumer relationship… although we did have a few ‘what’s the point of it?’ so I guess that’s in the same ball park.

      I like the idea of the iPad… a lot. But it would have to be better and by that I mean a camera or two (Skype, AR), Flash (you could see a plug-in icon whilst Steve Jobs was viewing the New York Times) and decent connectivity with external devices.

      The keynote seemed to focus on this ‘third category’ (please, no comparisons or jokes about the Third Reich), which is kind of odd. I mean, sure… mobiles are pretty useless for reading content/viewing websites but laptops do a fine job (my Macbook is a lovely device) already. OK, so the iPad looks lovely but your point about the content/consumer relationship is a valid one. Ultimately unless you’re only planning to consume with this device, you’re not going to see any advantages with an iPad over a combo of mobile and lappy.

      That’s never stopped anyone buying something because it’s cool though… and hopefully the iPad will develop into something more useful (for me) very soon.

    • Johnny Brewer 3:34 pm on February 11, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Steve, I think you nailed it. What we were really wanting as users, was laptop capability with a touchscreen interface, built on Apple’s legendary UI expertise. Knowing that they have the ways and means to make it happen, yet didn’t, left us feeling cheated somehow. They made the classic mistake of a business that is growing out of touch with its customers, namely, putting itself first.

  • MP3s, eBooks, Digitizing and ‘The Experience’

    Steve 11:52 pm on January 27, 2010 | 11 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , eBook, , MP3, , reading

    So, the iPad is here – massive Dom Joly iPhone? half a laptop? eReader? The Daily Prophet for Muggles…?

    I read a couple of people on Twitter making claims that it was going to ‘kill books’. In response I tweeted this quote from Douglas Adams, which I got via Neil Gaiman:

    “Nothing is as good at being a book as a book is.”

    And commented that eBooks ≠ MP3s for written words.

    So what’s the difference? Why are book-sellers in a different position to those who were in the business of selling music-in-bits-of-plastic that are now crapping themselves that their livelihood is vanishing?

    Firstly, digitally downloadable music is the most malleable, useful format ever for music, and we lose nothing in the quality of experience by going that route. Sure, the quality of files sold on iTunes is lower than CD, but don’t forget that CDs are just containers for digital music – they’re overly large computer discs – and that the audio on them is of a quality deemed acceptable to all but the most audiophile of listeners. With digital downloads, there’s nothing to stop us upping the quality to the point where the changes are undetectable – 24bit, 96k files are probably about as good as you need to go before the changes are imperceptible. We can do that, and once the headphones are on, or the speakers are playing the music, the experience is the same as any other format for listening to recorded stereo (or in the case of DVD-A, 5.1) music. Nothing is lost, portability and positively variable quality is gained. If you want the experience of popping something flat and physical in a slot while listening, you can make a piece of toast at the same time.

    eBooks are a whole different proposition – the act of reading requires us to continually look at the thing we’re reading from. That’s what reading is. Otherwise, it’s memorising, and the act of memorising requires us to read – or listen to – the words before we learn them.

    So books and eBooks aren’t just a delivery mechanism – they are the stereo system as well as the record. They are carried around as part of the experience.

    This isn’t to say that eBooks ‘aren’t as good as books’, just that they AREN’T books. They are a wholly different way to consume the written word, with all kinds of fun multimedia potential too, but also with all kinds of issues surrounding readability, shareability, discovery, portability, flexibility, the ability to scribble notes in the margins and the format for gifting.

    Comparing once again with music – if I want to give someone a CD, it’s quite possible for me to record a digital file onto any kind of transferable media I like and pass it on without losing anything. The same can be done with an eBook, but it’s much tougher to transfer from eBook to book – the cost of printing a document of book length at home is not comparitive with the cost of dubbing a CD and printing a nice picture on it.

    Readability is a huge issue – the Kindle gets round it by using ‘E ink’ or ‘virtual ink’, rendering it much easier on the eyes, but making the screen much less multi-purpose. As far as I know, no-one yet has done a hybrid E-ink/normal screen. So you have the variable use of an iPad-style screen with its eye-strain issues for longer documents, or the Kindle which is a one-trick pony, all be it a fairly brilliant one trick pony.

    The Kindle is utilitarian – it does its one function very well, without too many concessions to pointless stylization. The iPad may well be used by a lot of people as an eReader, but the experience won’t be the same as reading a book, it won’t be any more portable than an individual book, won’t fit in your back pocket and even if it did, would break if you sat on it.

    This isn’t an anti eBook rant – I love the idea of downloadable, sharable books, I love the idea of subscribable news, of blogs and newspapers and novels living side by side in harmony, like Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney, but it’s worth considering the fundamental differences and why, as I said at the top, eBooks ≠ to MP3s for the written word.

    ….if you don’t believe you, go and download my eBook… for free! :)

     
    • Pete Ashton 12:18 am on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      It’s notable that Apple’s iBook thing is a discrete offering with its own app and store and such. Also it’s just a vehicle for an established, open eBook format. This isn’t anything revolutionary – it’s just another way to sell mainstream publisher content.

      Now, if Apple were to do something with packages of digital content, like the web pages we used to build before Blogger emerged, something like those Apps that aren’t really Apps but little multi-media websites, and gave anyone a chance to sell them through the store, then that’d be interesting.

      See also: http://powazek.com/posts/2234

      • Steve 1:20 pm on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        Pete, did you see the BBC stuff about the new ramped up audio format that allows you to bundle up to 32Gb of additional content with each track? sounds a little like what you’re saying. I’m looking forward to more innovation in both file formats and interface design. this still feels like fairly rudimentary stuff…

    • Guitartim 12:23 am on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Steve, I totally agree with every word you’ve written…and yet I think that, on balance, I don’t agree.

      For you and me, everything you’ve written is true, because that’s how we grew up reading – paper books, newspapers, magazines, etc. To this day, if I have to read anything significantly long I’d much rather have it on paper than on a screen.

      But I strongly suspect that the next generation – by which I mean those that have, from childhood, had lots of online material available, and who have grown up surrounded by laptops, Wiis, PlayStations, etc., I suspect that for this generation paper will be the weird experience, and online the norm. And so I’m lead to conclude that the book, while perfect at being a book (I too like the Douglas Adams quote) will in time be end-of-life’d because, while perfect, it will get to be insufficiently better than whatever-by-then-we-call-the-thing-thats-second-best. And the Kindle will be completely forgotten, just like the once-successful Wang word processor.

      • Steve 12:28 am on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

        I’m happy to concede that tech may (will?) change to facilitate things we can’t imagine right now – battery life and shareability are BIG issues here – but they experience still won’t be *the same* as a book.

        Choosing vinyl over digital audio is about how vinyl makes you *feel*, nostalgia or owning a great stereo optimised for vinyl and having enough records that it’s really not worth the energy to switch. The integration of a digital collection and an analogue one is easy and the experience interchangable. Not really so for books.

        As I said, it’s not that eBooks won’t prove to be better integrated with our tech-tied future – they may well – but the experience still won’t be the same…

        For one thing, books can still go where electricity can’t. :)

        • Guitartim 1:02 am on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

          Again, I agree yet maybe I don’t…

          …the work that Google is doing to nearly-automatically digitise vast libraries-worth of books will make the integration of digital and and analogue very achievable, just like the record labels making old material available as MP3s.

          …battery tech has improved in leaps and bounds in the last decade, entirely driven by the need to power mobile devices; no reason to think that this will stop anytime soon AFAIK

          …shareabaility…surely digitised media is the most shareable form? Certainly has been for music.

          …as for no electricity… you know how mobile companies are accelerating their 3rd world penetration? Solar chargers.

          Again, don’t get me wrong, I love books in many, many, ways, but I suspect that we will be the last generation that has this affinity for them.

    • inkysmudge 6:55 am on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Morning all, interesting points made. The massive Dom Joly iPhone thought made me laugh ;) The fundamental here is what people are used to. As Guitartim says, if you grow up used to everything being available electronically then I can imagine the idea of actually ‘buying a book’ (in the physical sense) would seem odd.

      Steve, I don’t know if this would tie in with the idea of physical ‘ownership’ that gets so much air in music circles? Maybe books (as we know them) will go the same way and in time everyone will just ‘rent’ content? Time, as ever, will tell.

      Personally, I love the ‘experience’ of reading a book, the whole tactile part of it and having them sit there on shelves and what have you, especially the sense that when I really get into a book, I’m fully immersed. I’m not multi-tasking or doing anything other than reading, something which I think is underrated these days. Here’s an article you might find interesting in a wider sense:

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090128092341.htm

      I’m not a luddite (well, er………!) but I think it would be a shame for the ‘experience’ of books to disappear completely, however long that takes.

      Be well.

    • Wayne Jordan 1:07 pm on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      Some facts about fiction
      I agree with Guitartim. In his ‘last generation’ bit and his shareability question. Whilst I don’t particularly like the idea of being on a train with 50 people all heads down into another plastic device and I have to admit I do like the idea of people still reading fiction. It’s hardly a dying art for our generation but what of the future? People read fewer books in general. You can barely give newspapers away. What are people doing with there spare time? Is TV that good? With faster download speeds will the net be our primary enter/infotainment centre? What will the 2030 Ikea catalogue look like without a huge section devoted to bookshelves because we won’t need them anymore?

      Gah, I love books. I love technology. But let’s get some points straight…

      I’m a print romantic.
      I’ve been trained as a designer for print and I get off on something coming hot off the press or the smell of a freshly purchased book. Also, I’m nosey. I like the idea of a book cover acting as a piece of self promotion when its on someone’s table or openly read on public transport. It acts in a similar way to some compatability question on a dating website: the ‘I know you’re reading Harry Potter matey, adult cover or not’ factor if you will. Or wondering if I should get into Balzac to make me seem more intellectual. eBooks hide that. They become nothing more than extended text messages. I can’t tell whether you’re laughing at; Private Eye or some 3rd world economic crisis in The Times.
      I also lament MP3’s destruction of having a physical presence to substantiate having a really nice printed gatefold album cover (big enough to put on your wall where a bookshelf may have been). eBooks will have the same issue. Sure, chuck a 33k jpeg in there somewhere. I think squinting through the pixels I can see the authors name. It’s not rocking my world.
      Physically having something you’ve parted your money for seems like a great exchange (even if its merely packaging). And something the iTunes generation have had to bite the bullet for. Men especially are – for want of a better word – ‘Completists’ and going to great lengths to fill space with Bowie’s entire back catalogue or Seasons 1-8 of Buffy to proudly display like some nerdy peacock. Men now gauge their music collection in how much time their music collection last (4 weeks if you’re asking) or how much diskspace it takes up (I have my own server farm in California just for my Cure collection). Will books go the same way? Will I be measuring my books not in actual physical space, but how many words my iPad has or geek stats such as ‘4.2 trillion words, but badger is only mentioned 24 times’?

      The ‘can I borrow that after you?’ factor
      The argument about them not being books is a good one. They’re not. They could be much more.
      This will happen in our time. Trust me. Editable story lines, character name changes, you decide. I’d liken it to books like Warlock of Firetop Mountain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warlock_of_Firetop_Mountain where you basically had various storylines all chosen by you. Why stop there. Alternate endings. Animated illustrations. The book literally could come to life. Let’s Avatar it up and have 3D type and content. Why not? Perhaps by altering the content means you could become the author. With your name on it would your friends be more interested in it and therefore participate in it also. Who knows. But it sounds great fun.
      You may be thinking, would you alter a classic? Would you deface the Mona Lisa? Nope, its great where it is. Would I also look at a Banksy version of it? Yes, why not? Would a Banksy version make me want to see the original? Yeah, then you can make a comparison.

      The readability issue
      Design periodical Émigré magazine once told us ‘People Read Best What They Read Most’. Though it was based on a typographic argument in the early 90s when Design/Typography was deconstructed by the likes of David Carson et al. The ‘deconstruction’ took design to a new level of art (strongly aided by Apple’s shiny new Mac II), it was strongly criticized for its legibility. However, the deconstructionists retaliation was to point out that Newsprint was once typeset in Black Gothic lettering, deemed unreadable now by our lazy san serif ‘The Sun’ reading eyes.
      What does this all mean though in context? Well, is readability is an issue on the new iPad for us? Tough. We’re slipping out of the target market. They’ll be some die hards in the future for vintage in much the same way as vinyls not dead to the dance generation. Hell, even in this age you still see people smoking a pipe. But if you get used to reading copy somewhere or on something then it’ll eventually become normal. Hell, it’s the job of the designer to get this right and keeping people like me in a job because making copy easier to read is part of the job description. Print, online or sprayed on a wall.

      So, I’ve no real point as you can tell. I’m just a big fan of fiction and by default will become a big fan of anything that promotes the writing of fiction. Having read this blogpost on an iPhone will I be an iPad convert?

      Only if it comes with a spine.

      THB

    • Steve 2:39 pm on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I’ve read a few ebooks, but never on a dedicated ‘eReader’. I’ve used Palm PDAs and my current WinPhone. They work for linear fiction where all you do is scroll down, but I can see problems with things like reference books where you need to look up pages on a topic, make notes etc. But for that sort of reading I tend to use the web these days, e.g. for checking on how to use a programming function.

      As for newspapers, I shouldn’t think they work so well on an eReader if just copied over as a series of pages, but could work well in hypertext mode, i.e. like the web.

      I still read books, but that’s mostly out of habit and because they are easily available.

      I don’t particularly want a Kindle or even an iPad. I prefer general purpose devices so that I don’t need to carry several, but that always seems to be a compromise. My phone is a PDA, eReader, camera and audio player, but not ideal for all of those. It still allows me to have one device, with one memory card and one battery to charge and still do all those things whilst fitting in my pocket.

      I suspect that the book will be around for a while yet, but certain types of reading will move more to other media. The book stopped evolving a long time ago, but eReaders still have a long way to go. We are likely to see bendable, full-colour, touch screen, very high resolution devices with full connectivity within a few years. But some people may still prefer the dead tree version.

    • Mikael Suomela 3:13 pm on January 28, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I have Kindle. It’s a fine piece of equipment, but Kindle’s and iPad’s DRM makes a really strong argument against digital equipment of their ilk. I mean to have a book, but not to be able to make backups that work on a different make or model of an ereader is extremely frustrating. That raises the threshold of buying new ebooks pretty high – I don’t like the idea of single-use disposable literature. If I read in long form, I fully expect to read the text again several times (if it’s enjoyable and/or gives lasting value).

      Publisher O’reilly has it right: I can download the ebook in any format I choose for as long as I wish – the book is bought and paid for once.

      I really am disappointed to see Apple go into really draconian measures of content and device control.

    • Wulf 2:44 pm on January 29, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I got to try a couple of eReaders at a demo session put on by University Library staff yesterday. They had the Kindle and also the Sony PRS-600. Of the two, I thought the Sony (with touchscreen rather than the Kindle’s piddly little joystick) was the better device. Neither really grabbed me though.

      What would interest me would be a larger epaper device (small screens miss a lot of the benefits of printed text) that you could hook up to your computer and “print” to. In other words, a system that smoothly integrates with and expands the abilities of the rest of my computer set up, not another little DRM-fenced fiefdom.

    • Billy iT 10:06 am on February 8, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      I love books and I also buy e-books. What I like about e-books is the instant gratification that I get and of course I can get sucked into the marketing hype that makes me want it! I’ll read the file and if it’s something I want around, I’ll print it or buy the book version (if available). E-books are just an extra experience for me and for marketers, a cheaper way to distribute.

      Mp3 files … I have a confession, well perhaps a few :) I’ve never bought one, have I downloaded any, maybe a few. Do I buy CD’s or albums… not since 1978 and ahem and I’m a musician. I think CD’s are a piece of toast and miss those younger days when I would rush out to buy Stanley Clarke or Jaco, or Black Sabbath, Cream etc and oggle over the beautiful cover art and read every liner note.

      When Cd’s started making their mark on Vinyl I opted out of buying music, why? I didn’t like the fact that we were now being fed, by Major Labels that CD was it. I’ve always thought CD’s were an interim product while someone comes up with a new audiophile solution. 30 years we have waited while the Majors have plundered the population, and not only that but now we have a generation of kids that have grown up with shitty MP3 files (I’d be gettin mine free too!!!).

      Now can Mp3’s be put in their rightful place a tasters and teasers for a better listening product.

      I’m never going to replace my real books with whatever electronic device comes along. It would be like giving up my real bass for a keyboard or convincing myself that Mainstages slight delay is ok and can be worked around… bullocks.

  • 2009: The Year Of The Blog Commenter

    Steve 4:06 pm on January 2, 2010 | 1 Permalink | Reply

    This post is by way of a massive THANKS! to everyone who contributed on my various blogsstevelawson.net, beyondbasscamp.com and here on solobasssteve.com2009 was the year that the comments on my blog became the main reason for blogging.

    More often that not, the real value in what I was writing came from the discussion that ensued - I’d throw an idea or two out (some better formed than others) and the amazing people that took the time to comment, discuss, disagree, encourage, expand and generally riff on my ideas were the ones who took those ideas into a more useful place.

    When speaking in Universities about the changes in the music industry, no small number of my main points are ideas that were first germinated as comments on the blog. Some of the smartest insights into the big music industry stories of the year came via those comments, and much of the smarter blogging towards the end of the year was shaped by the melding of ideas and comments earlier on in the year.

    As I wander around the web, like anyone, I find that comments on blogs are a curates egg. On most of the national papers, the comments are a battle-ground for ill-conceived fundamentalisms of all stripes, with no-one seeking consensus or respecting difference. Such that any wisdom gets lost in the noise.

    And on many ‘pro’ blogs, the ad-revenue-driven need for ‘hits’ above all else means that posts are often written as ‘link-bait’, and any notion of a sensible discussion disappears out of the window in a gust of sensationalism and crass over-statement.

    Contrast that with the gracious disagreements that have happened here, the questioning, probing and quest for some kind of middle ground, understanding and learning that has happened across these blogs, and I feel SO grateful to you. It’s not like I did anything special to deserve it.

    I always have it in my mind that I have no fear in moderating out angry, insulting or malicious comments. But I’ve done so little of it this year as to not be able to recall any instances. I’m guessing I must’ve done it once or twice, but I can’t remember!

    So here’s to 2010, more discussions, more learning, and here on solobasssteve.com, lots more guest writers – a huge thanks to:

    Hannah Nicklin, Tom Alves, Wulf F-B, John Sargent, Steve Uccello, Lisa Harding, Jennifer Moore, Sam Hallam, Anders Faerch and Jemimah Knight,

    who wrote guest posts either here or, in the case of Jennifer, Anders and Jemimah, over on stevelawson.net – your contributions were a huge help, and greatly appreciated.

    Hurrah!

     
    • Jennifer 8:48 pm on January 2, 2010 Permalink | Reply

      And likewise thanks for providing the space and so many interesting catalysts for discussion!

  • "Rock And Roll Is Dead": What Happens Next?

    Steve 10:47 pm on December 27, 2009 | 10 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: novel, rock and roll is dead, verfremdungseffect

    Nope, this isn’t a brainstorm on the future of the music industry. Well, at least, not directly.

    You’ve read my novel, right? If you haven’t, click here to read about it and download it for free. (probably best to go read it, then come back here to read the comments, as there may well be spoilers implicit within what people write…)

    It’s about a band. They go through a bit of a crisis, and a change, and things happen.

    I’m really proud of it, enjoyed writing it and enjoy reading it back. I like the characters, so am wondering what to do next with them.

    So I thought it’d be fun to ask you lot what you think should happen in Vol II.

    So, have at it – the comments are yours. If I end up using any of them in the book, I’ll send you a free CD. :)

     
    • Mike K Smith 11:44 pm on December 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      How about Verfremdungseffekt do a tour of Europe based entirely on house concerts booked through social media sites, touring in a ecologically responsible way by using only public transport? You could make it partially autobiographical… ;-)

    • Guitartim 11:12 am on December 28, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Well, the first thought that occurs is that Verfrendungseffeckt aren’t going to get very far until they’ve some material available online for free download. (I mean, who’d book them for a house concert somewhere in Europe otherwise?)

      C’mon, Meg, Drum Monkey, we wanna hear some stuff…stick some audioboos up!

      • Steve 1:58 am on December 29, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        It’s possible at some point I’ll think of a reasonable way to actually record the band’s music, but at the moment, it would be just a little too high maintenance to find players who would sound like them… And in the story, they’ve already got music that *some* people have heard.

        I could certainly write in their adventures with posting audio, recording etc… could be a rich seam to mine :)

        • Guitartim 10:57 am on December 31, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          Yeah, I know, I know, but… a) I want to know what those space drums sound like and b) I think you could have a whole bundle of fun being effectively a tribute band to a band that doesn’t even exist! Maybe it’s just my warped mind that this appeals to?

          I’ve a few other ideas for vol 2 that are still slowly emerging from the primordial ooze that slops around in my skull these days. Later…

    • Jessie 11:24 am on December 28, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      The three inspire others and take part in a regular-ish improv jam event, where anyone can join in. Opportunities for collaboration (or romance?) arise. They get to play at a music therapy centre and find a niche, maybe leading to a career change for one/all.

      • Steve 1:59 am on December 29, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        that’s a great idea – I was already thinking of basically writing in the Recycle Collective to the story ( http://www.recyclecollective.com )… the music therapy angle could also be fab… will see where it all goes!

    • Joan Lawson 11:33 am on December 28, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      They could then get lost in a port city e.g. Rotterdam & meet up w/ illegal immigrants who happen to be musicians. Eventually find HC venue w/ migrants in tow. Double bill HC follows. Migrants like the idea of busking indoors. Band leave them in an internet cafe trying to book themselves another gig.

      • Steve 1:59 am on December 29, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        ha! nice. would be a fab way to explore the cross-cultural music influence that Gem has… good stuff, mum! :)

        • Guitartim 10:52 am on December 31, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          Of course, the migrant musicians would probably turn out to be Rodrigo y Gabriela, blow everyone else away at tthe first gig, causing them all to go back to their other jobs head-in-hands…

  • RATM Christmas Follow-up: Was It A Fix?

    Steve 8:47 pm on December 22, 2009 | 19 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , meaning, RATM, ratm4xmas, simon cowell, sony, sustainability, xfactor

    I’ve started mentally drafting this a few times, but almost all of them just ended up with me reiterating everything I said in my ‘Futility Of Fighting Fire With Fire‘ post over on stevelawson.net.

    However, this evening, someone linked on Twitter to This blog post claiming that it was a campaign masterminded by Sony. And now the process of saying ‘is it?’ and ‘if it is, how dare they!‘ has started. I’ve been asked my opinion on it, both the veracity and the meaning of it, so I thought I’d scribble down some thoughts.
    (More …)

     
    • Sime 9:02 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I’ve just pressed play and expected Neil Young to come rushing out at me after two seconds – then, I was met head on by a lovely fresh vocal that reminds me of a few people and nobody, all at once… Quite nice while I type to you…

      Great run-down on the RATM / JOE / SONY …”thing”

      It’s true, we all know it, well, those of us with any musical appreciation beyond what is thrust at us via a 600′ high banner spinning from a gold plated helicopter covered in money.. (whoa)… music IS what it used to be, you just have to try a little harder to find it – like this track “Being Here” it’s still going and I quite like it and think I could happily listen to an album by Miriam (Thanks, Steve)

      Sony, spin or not, won that round – good for them, RATM get to come to the UK and do a show hosted by Cowell (So say LiveNation in a press release?) and, as you say, Joe will be number one next week…

      Everyone wins, well, except those artists that actually need this type of promotion…

      So… Good article, thanks for the music, see you out there…

      Sime

    • Andy 9:15 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      The same people ran a campaign last Christmas to get Rick Astley to number 1 instead of the X Factor – something those who claimed “it was all about the music” seemed to have missed. They just hit it lucky with their choice this time.

    • David 9:39 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      There’s been a significant update on the Lyle blog following a comment from moogyboobles that you should read.

      Personally I think this was nothing more than a teenage style prank to get a song with the word fuck to Xmas number one. The xfactor guff that surrounded it was just a vehicle to get it momentum.

      Any pretence at a grander protest or more significant ‘meaning’ is tiresome BS

      • Steve 10:00 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        thanks for the heads up on the update – clearly not a fix. The ‘evidence’ was seriously shoddy in the first place.

    • Steve t 9:48 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Can’t imagine you turning many rage fans onto miriam jones. ( Think i’m in a fairly small minority in owning albums by both miriam and rage ) far as the number one goes i think the christmas number one still means something to the general public so rage at number one can’t be a bad thing. Sure sony were the big winners, i’m hoping rage will use the publicity to promote their politics ( they usually have something interesting to say ) failing that it still made me smile ( nothing wrong with a bit of panto)

      • Steve 10:01 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I can’t imagine many Rage fans reading this – the readers here are a fairly consistent bunch, some of whom may like Miriam, some may not. No biggie either way.

        Meaning and the perception of meaning are two different things. But that’s a whole other blog post, and I’ll have to re-read some Viktor Frankl first ;)

    • Rich Huxley 10:43 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Wise Christmas words Steve. On the up side though, the sale of RATM’s single has raised cash for the charity “Shelter” I hear.
      Personally, I’d still rather hear “Killing In The Name Of” to at least give us a change from the hardy perennial that is the X-Factor Christmas #1. I realise it’s a small (and, I’m ashamed to say petty) victory; pleases me though.

      Merry Christmas (and to quote RATM) £%@#er #%€$ers
      Yours Childishly
      xR
      ;)

      • Steve 10:49 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t have any objection to it being there – it’s a completely harmless event and like you, I really like the song – that whole album is fantastic. But I haven’t heard it anywhere yet, because I don’t listen to the radio or watch TV. Clearly no-one is going to play the naughty words at the end cos we’re terrified of kids hearing on the radio the kind of language they use all the time in the playground… Are you honestly expecting to hear less of the Joe thingie-whats-hisname single? I’ve not heard it, and wouldn’t know it if I did (don’t as yet even know what it’s called) – I can’t imagine that many malls are going to be adding Killing In The Name to their Christmas list…

        So far, I’ve heard Driving Home For Christmas by Chris Rea about 8 times, and it still makes me smile. And Roy Wood’s ‘I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day’ is a great tune and arrangement with borderline psychotic lyrics – what kind of damn foo’ wants Christmas every day? That’s mentalism!

        So Killing In The Name being at number one has so far impacted me purely in text form. Though obviously, I own the album, so could easily put it on and listen to it. As could, I’m sure, a vast number of the people who bought it AGAIN (that I find genuinely baffling).

        :)

    • Marius van Dyk 11:32 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Arguing over which song is “better” all depends on what “is” is. ;-)

      I agree with you Steve. Nothing has changed, fix or no fix.

      I must however add that it gives me a warm feeling to know that there are still 502,000 odd people (over a million if you look at the Facebook page) out there at least who feel passionate enough about music which has soul and substance to take part in this campaign.

      I think it’s deeper than cultural snobbery or making a difference. I think it’s about the human spirit rebelling against an automated machine which sucks the life out of music and gives you the impression that most people actually like the soul-less pop idol stuff. This perpetuates the image that this music is actually popular when as you well said, it’s just non-offensive and heavily marketed.

      For me, it’s more about the message of RATM and the message of X-factor and for this I do care, deeply.

      So, more Rage, less X-factor in the Zeitgeist, even just for a week, brings a smile to my face, no matter how I look at it. ;-)

    • Steve 11:47 pm on December 22, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      that there are still 502,000 odd people (over a million if you look at the Facebook page) out there at least who feel passionate enough about music which has soul and substance to take part in this campaign.

      But LOADS of music has soul and substance. All the music I listen to has soul and substance. I refuse to listen to music that doesn’t have soul and substance in my estimation – every person who bought it will have a different classification of what that means, what music does that for them. For some of them, Enya will make them cry, for some it’ll be Bach’s St Matthew’s Passion, and for others they’ll get something magical from obscure 70s funk records. To suggest that one song selling more copies than another is somehow emblematic of caring about soul and substance is to hand WAY too much credence to the notion of pop charts.

      Soul and substance has nothing to do with popularity, and everything to do with personal narrative. As much as I love RATM’s music, I actually think this undermines it’s power and message, reducing it to a slogan, far removed from the critique of institutional racism that Killing In The Name’s lyrics actually comprise.

      But, as I’ve said, it’s not that I don’t think it should be there, just that it means nothing for it to be there :)

      • Marius van Dyk 12:08 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        “To suggest that one song selling more copies than another is somehow emblematic of caring about soul and substance is to hand WAY too much credence to the notion of pop charts.”

        I agree. The charts mean nothing to me personally and I don’t think that’s what made me tingle here.

        I was trying to say that without the campaign this conversation wouldn’t have been taking place this Christmas.

        I think the fact that it is means that the campaign stirred the pot just a bit and since we’ve established it wasn’t rigged I feel warmed by the mere fact that it happened. Cheap victory as Rich said. Still it makes me smile where even just knowing that the X-factor machine exists makes me queasy to say the least. ;-)

        I agree that the original intent of this particular song was directed at something more serious. I don’t think the campaign will damage that message much in the long run.

        Someone tweeted Sabotage would have been a better choice. Maybe.

        All talk of “better music” or popularity is irrelevant to me in this case.

        Don’t you think this campaign was punk Steve? If you do, wouldn’t you agree the World is just a slight bit better off because it took place? Just a tiny bit? ;-)

        • Steve 1:47 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          ah, I’m not letting you get away with the ‘this conversation wouldn’t be happening of it wasn’t for XYZ’ – that’s the most lazy defense of any action ;) You’re much smarter than that… ha!

          I don’t think it was in the slightest bit punk. Punk would’ve been about people putting on gigs, making their own music and ignoring the charts altogether. So much of what we think of as punk wasn’t a remotely punk ethic. My favourite ‘real punk’ is Mike Watt – don’t think he’s ever troubled the charts, but has been making awesome vital music for close to 30 years. A massive inspiration.

          I think the world is exactly the same because of it. The only way it’s different is that some people now think of themselves and their internet peers as revolutionaries, like 15 year olds buying Che t-shirts from Walmart. Sony and the charts people are going to be more than happy with all the ‘we won, we beat the x-factor’ BS because the end result is sales, and sales on their terms, through their outlets of music on their labels…

          So much in the industry is about getting people to buy music for reasons other than just liking it – branding, tribalism, tv-shows, campaigns – they’re all cut from the same cloth, and are all a distraction from us weaving our own beautiful and complex narrative where the musicians who make the music we choose to wrap around ourselves aren’t totemic mythological people but are there to be spoken to, congratulated and encouraged. The world would’ve been a much better place if those 500,000 sales had been pointed at the nation’s indie artists. Or, of course, if the campaign had just been to donate to Shelter, but that’s another red-herring. ;)

          • Marius van Dyk 1:20 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

            Morning!

            “Punk would’ve been about people putting on gigs, making their own music and ignoring the charts altogether.”

            That to me is almost like the Sex Pistols ignoring the Queen. ;-)

            “The world would’ve been a much better place if those 500,000 sales had been pointed at the nation’s indie artists. ”

            I agree. It wouldn’t have worked tough as a short term campaign. That type of thing needs to happen in the long run.

            “The only way it’s different is that some people now think of themselves and their internet peers as revolutionaries, like 15 year olds buying Che t-shirts from Walmart.”

            Still, apart from the Wall-mart bit, better than 15 year-olds buying the X-factor winners t-shirt don’t you think? ;-)

            I get what you are saying though I think we may be stressing the details here when the basic idea is quite revolutionary.

            I refer to an article twoted by Andrew Dubber this morning…

            http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-where-next-in-the-battle-against-the-establishment-1848137.html

            The quote that sums it up for me is this…

            “So their success challenges the central obstacle seeping through the country, which is cynicism.”

            I think this ignites a bit of optimism in the minds of many people who have not yet “gotten” the power of the Internet as a platform.

            An individual with a good idea and a platform to spread the word has become a force to be reckoned with.

            This gives me hope.

            • Steve 1:30 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink

              The Sex Pistols weren’t remotely Punk, IMHO. They were as contrived as X-Factor. It would be like the Minutemen ignoring the Queen. Oh, wait, they did! :)

              Something being marginally less crap than some other supremely crap thing is no reason to champion it. It’s reason to invent a third option. This wasn’t a binary equation – it wasn’t ‘buy this OR buy that’ – and it also wasn’t as black and white as saying ‘buying RATM MP3s = bad’ – it doesn’t, it didn’t do any harm at all. It just didn’t do anything. :)

              To overcome cynicism with laziness and a false sense of armchair activism is a pyrrhic victory. Spending 29p on rock star back catalogue isn’t revolutionary, it’s a short-term anaesthetic that does nothing.

              It hasn’t done any harm at all. Because it didn’t do anything – good or bad – besides making people feel like they’d done ‘enough’, like they were ’sticking it to The Man.

              Corporations can be accidental agents of Revolution – RATM’s music is revolutionary whichever label it’s on. That’s a given. Wall-E is a fantastic seditious counter-cultural film, made by Disney and Pixar. Mike Watt’s first 2 solo albums are on Columbia…

              Infiltration of corporate entities has a long and distinguished history. But sometimes the tables are turned, and the corps make a whole pile of cash off people thinking they’re kicking against the pricks when instead they are strengthening the position of the status quo.

              I guess that was the point of this post – fix or not (now we know it clearly wasn’t) it wouldn’t have changed a thing. The outcome is the same and nothing has changed.

              What we do next though, is a whole lot more exciting. :)

    • Jennifer 9:49 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Aaah I don’t know. I mean everything you say makes perfect sense, and I’d already read your earlier post on the subject, AND YET when I heard Rage were the Christmas Number One I laughed in delight and amusement.

      I think part of it is the sense of all those people out there, some of them quite young, who – even though the difference it made was in a sense trivial – have had the experience of joining with others to make themselves heard. This time it was trivial, next time it might be on something more important. Maybe that’s over-optimistic, but I just can’t see it as a bad thing.

      • Steve 12:39 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        …and I certainly don’t begrudge anyone their moment of glee. If I wasn’t predisposed to analyze this stuff, I’d certainly be smiling more about it. I mean, I love the band, have played the song more times that I care to count and am delighted at the thought that more people might possibly be exposed to their politics and campaigning…

        But when it started getting pitched as ‘the people vs Cowell’ – as the internet taking on the machine of the industry, I despaired at the way that the ease of starting a campaign now means that people don’t actually think through the best way to do something, they choose the path of least resistance.

        …I’m going to give some time to thinking of alternative ‘campaign’ ideas that could promote the cause of independent music sharing, as an alternative to this kind of thing… I honestly don’t mean to come across as a miserablist – it’s not significant enough to be miserable about. It’s business as usual ;)

        I would, however, love to hear you do a bass and voice cover of Killing In The Name, Jennifer :)

    • Marius van Dyk 1:50 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      “To overcome cynicism with laziness and a false sense of armchair activism is a pyrrhic victory.”

      Do you refer to the people who supported the campaign? I don’t think the guys who started and ran the campaign were lazy.

      If armchair activism pushed X-factor of the charts it may need to be given a bit more credit. Power in my opinion is the ability to make something happen and influence the world around you. This campaign did that.

      “What we do next though, is a whole lot more exciting.”

      Agreed. This campaign wasn’t the end of anything. It’s however a reference to point to for those who doubt what can be done from an armchair. ;-)

      I say: Let the games begin! ;-)

      • Steve 2:02 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t think the people who started it had much idea what they were doing. It was just internet silliness. We do that kind of stuff all the time, it just doesn’t turn into a national campaign because we don’t pick multi-million selling sweary anthems as our vehicle…

        Pushing X-Factor from the ‘top’ of the charts is a smile on a dog. It means nothing. It didn’t dent the sales of Joe Schmoe’s tune, just sold *more* copies. It’ll be a footnote in the decades-long decline in meaning of the charts, that ceased to have any intrinsic meaning when the internet removed the barrier to discovery/listening, but will soldier on for a few more decades just through the momentum an institution of that size has.

        In the meantime, an exercise like this pretends it still has meaning. If you want to maintain that pretense, go right ahead ;)

        BTW, I’m LOVING this discussion – thanks so much for entertaining it. I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this :)

        • Marius van Dyk 2:17 pm on December 23, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          You’re right: Joe will sell more copies. In fact I wouldn’t have even known about Joe if it wasn’t for the RATM campaign! Darn it, they got me. ;-)

          The charts have meaning to some. You know it’s horse manure and so do I. I hope this helps to highlight the manure-ness of the charts to those who don’t yet get it. ;-)

  • The X Factor - the death of real music?

    Lisa Harding 11:48 pm on December 12, 2009 | 7 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: our price records, real music, x factor

    My first post on here (yes i finally got round to it!)!

    I spend most of my time blogging profusely in my main cyber home (http://spiderplant88.wordpress.com) but thought that this post might be relevant here and I was motivated enough to throw the missive out there for comment!

    I finally relented this evening and put the X Factor final on. Boy do I wish I had not bothered. What a travesty. None of the final three acts were in any way outstanding and worthy of the attention that is being thrown at them from all quarters of the media, music and otherwise. Now call me a musical snob, but there is a lot to be said for musicians working their way up the music tree and earning their stripes in the pubs and clubs of the land until they make it to a larger audience. There are hundreds of hard working musicians around the country plying their trade and trying to use every avenue open to them to get their music heard by the masses.

    The Internet and the growth of social media has made their challenge a little easier in some respects and meant that they no longer have to rely on the major labels to get them into peoples ear space. For far too long the major labels have dictated who and what we should listen to. Years ago, when I left college, I couldn’t get the job I wanted in the design industry (took me ten years to get there) and instead i took a job with my second passion and worked for Our Price Records in Waterloo Station. In those days though the labels had a lot of control, we were still able in our stores, to lay out personal spaces for music suited to the demographic of the area where our store was. I worked in a number of stores as i worked my way up the ranks from part time sales assistant to store manager including Streatham, Wood Green, Covent Garden, Waterloo and Victoria Stations, Heathrow Airport and East Ham. Each area had a different musical ear from Reggae in South London to mainstream pop in the stations. It made it interesting for us trying to gauge what people listened to and making the sales walls relevant to each area. Each of the buyers knew their area and market and ordered stock based on what the public wanted to hear and requested in the store. It was a great time.

    Then in the mid 90’s Our Price head office changed their strategy and took the control away. Ever harnessed by the major labels and their buying power, the store took the decision to standardise the range in all the stores meaning that local requests didnt count any more. It was the death knell for the chain and so proved to be. Within 6 years, Our Price was sold to Virgin Megastores and a little gem was gone forever. My passion for live music remained and by this time i had found a job working for a design agency and was doing the job that i had trained to do and was passionate about. I was struck by a certain irony that whilst i had finally been given the chance to do what i had always wanted to do, there were hundreds of music artists out there that didnt have that chance and although we only helped in a little way promoting local artists, yet another avenue for promoting them was gone. As i watch the X Factor churn out yet more manufactured pap that has no individuality and no creativity to speak off, I am reminded of how great the music industry used to be. The live music scene in London was something else. On a Friday night i was never happier than taking myself off to a small venue to see an unsigned act or a larger venue to see a favourite act.

    Nowadays its all about how much money you can get from the act and the music is lost. As they are forever saying on the X Factor, its not just about the singing any more its about the whole package. To me that is garbage. I don’t care what an artist wears, i don’t care who they are seeing in their private life or what footballer or model they are shagging. To be its about whether they can sing or play their instrument well and entertain me. Today that is all gone. All the bands that grace our stages sound the same, the market is flooded with boy bands and girl bands whose only job is to titlate and half of them actually cant sing a note in tune in the first place. Tonights X Factor final was exactly as i thought it would be. Olly Murs the cheeky chappy from Cochester who relies on his charm when his voice fails him, Stacey Soloman the barbie doll from Dagenham who can hold a note sometimes but is a balladesque one trick pony and the stage school drop out Joe McElderry who pulls at your heart strings with his puppy dog eyes.

    Its a travesty and not what music is about. I miss the says when playing or singing in a band and writing your own music made all the difference. That died a death years ago and this the drivel that we are left with.

     
    • Steve 8:17 pm on December 13, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Lisa, thanks so much for this – the Our Price story is a key one. I bought a lot of things back in the day in Our Price on the ‘our staff recommend’ racks – all kinds of weird stuff. I ended up trusting the staff in the various branches of Our Price that I frequented. It clearly wasn’t an indie record shop in the ‘High Fidelity’ sense, but it was localised, and had personality…

      I’m not sure that X-Factor is the death of real music, though… it feels like the co-opting of music as the soundtrack to a rather involved game-show. It’s got more in common with the Generation Game than with The Old Great Whistle Test, in that it’s a game show where the ‘experts’ show them how to do it, then they have a bash at it, are a bit shit, but hey, everybody loves a trier…

      I’ve said before that the weird combination of impulses that drive X-Factor seem to be Nostalgia and Schadenfreude – listening to old songs that people love, but laughing at morons who screw them up… I don’t want to be a part of that, but I also don’t see it as having anything to do with what those of us who play music because we’re passionate about the power of music rather than the addictive power of fame. It’s a distraction, but I’m not sure that many people are sitting down of an evening and choosing between X-Factor and going out to a cellar club to see a band play… I might be wrong, but it seems more like it’s a choice between PS3 or X-Factor, Friends boxed-set or X-Factor…

      The big lie is that people still talk about it as though it’s a music show. We need to resist that, call it what it is, and keep pushing the benefits of music that matters.

      Something has been lost, but it’s been lost across western culture – it’s as much a crisis of macro-economics as it is of Simon Cowell being pond-life. The big marketeers have got better and better at selling integrated product – TV shows that work as games, feed magazines, have tonnes of spin-off sales ops and create celebs who go on earning, paying a percentage of their earnings into the pockets of those who gave them their ‘big break’ and their first horrific contract… Great business model, terrible for getting anything of cultural value into the mainstream media.

      So we ignore the mainstream media altogether and continue to talk about the things that matter… There’s definitely a war of words at work, and we can’t let piss poor cabaret colonise the language of ‘music’ – we must differentiate between the two. And I don’t think it’s that hard, given how little of reality or substance is ever generated by these shows. That Will Young is the best musician to have emerged from any of them is to damn them with feint praise…

    • Lisa Harding 8:44 pm on December 13, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I know what you mean Steve buy you know shows like the X Factor, Britains got talent etc are just another symptom of something that is fundamentally wrong with the music industry as a whole and has been brewing for years. The problem that I really have with these kind of shows is that while sensible types who love real music such as you and I realise what they are, the masses are accepting them as the standard for what music is all about and buying the mass overproduced crap they churn out each year as though it was the best thing that had ever been produced.

      All this at the expense of bands that work their behinds off with little or no exposure and no chance of the kind of success that these so called ‘hopefuls’ get given for 13+ weeks of TV exposure to millions of people for free regardless of whether they can sing or not.

      That leads me onto my other bug bear. The music has become secondary to the look and feel of the end product. Now it’s all about what they look like rather than what they sound like and that’s the real travesty. I said earlier, I don’t care what they look like, I care what they sound like and whether their music comes from the heart and mean something. Something that they have created and cherished until they felt they could release it to the world. Not this cover by cover blow conveyor belt regurgitating other peoples songs (most of which are standard pop fare too)

      It speaks volumes that of the many jobs I have had in my life, only two did I actually enjoy. My current job working for RNID making life better for people who are deaf or hard of hearing is rewarding in ways I never knew existed. The other was my job in Our Price. The pleasure you get from introducing someone to a style of music or an artist that they might not otherwise have heard was hugely gratifying and I miss it. It wasn’t quite a “I will now sell three copies of the 3 EPs by the Beta Band, I grant you” but we had our moments. I have a clear cut memories of selling about 50 copies of Mick Karns Bestial Cluster during my time at Our Price in Streatham and actually had head office phone me up to question if it was a mistake or not and had I actually sold them!

      Now sales assistants in these places are robots who just take the money that comes over the counter to them. They have no knowledge of anything outside the standard chart format and unless you want to talk about Kaiser Chiefs of Tynchy Snyder you wont even get them to break into a smile of enthusiasm.

      The world has gone slowly mad. Thank goodness there are artists like you out there that keep the home fires burning.

    • Matt Stevens 11:38 pm on December 13, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I think people who work in CD shops have as obscure knowledge as much as they ever have done – the people i know certainly have from old soul 12 inches to brazilian hardcore to jazz funk to indian music and beyond. And a massive passion for music way beyond the “charts”

    • Lisa Harding 11:49 pm on December 13, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Hey Matt

      Where are these wondrous Sales Assistants? They certainly dont work in Woking record shops thats for sure!

      LIsa

    • Nath 11:17 pm on December 14, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Apologies in advance for the likely length of this reply, but I’m getting a little tired of all the “look how awful X-Factor is and look how wonderful independent music is” articles.

      Firstly, independent record shops:
      I once had a Christmas job working with HMV. We were told exactly what to stock and where to stock it, and we were given five albums that we had to play on repeat for the entire week – these albums were, obviously, all on major labels who had paid HMV lots of money for this privilege.

      But the staff were all equally as enthusiastic and knowledgeable as any I’ve encountered in independent record shops. I was working at HMV on the day that Joe Strummer died, and as soon as the last customer left our Assistant Manager put on London Calling and we all sang along – as a Clash fan, it was a good place to be. And after Christmas, HMV were selling Grace by Jeff Buckley for £4, and I had countless conversations with customers who bought it and with music fans looking to spend their Christmas gift vouchers. Just because it’s not independently-owned doesn’t mean that it can’t lead to people finding new music.

      And the X-Factor:
      Lisa said: “Now call me a musical snob, but there is a lot to be said for musicians working their way up the music tree and earning their stripes in the pubs and clubs of the land until they make it to a larger audience. There are hundreds of hard working musicians around the country plying their trade and trying to use every avenue open to them to get their music heard by the masses.”

      Some of the contestants have done exactly that. Finalists Jamie and Olly have ‘earned their stripes in the pubs and clubs’ and ended up on X-Factor as a result of ‘trying to use every avenue open to them’. Are they now OK?

      And how about the Arctic Monkeys? They only played a few gigs before getting signed, but because they very quickly developed a fanbase, they sold out the Astoria not too long after forming. They haven’t ‘earned their stripes in the pubs and clubs’, damn them! Quick, take their record deal off them and force them to play in crappy pubs in London where they don’t get paid, have to guarantee a certain number of people through the door and no-one listens to them!

      Lisa also said “It’s a travesty and not what music is about. I miss the days when playing or singing in a band and writing your own music made all the difference.” Yep, let’s write off Aretha Franklin and (mostly) Billie Holiday, or any number of Motown singers over the years, or many many more, because they didn’t write their own music.

      It’s only in the last fifty years that we’ve expected our singers to ‘be in bands’ or write their own music, and only in the last thirty that we’ve taken this attitude that those who are only skilled in performing music are a lower class than those who write music. And no, I don’t like the music that the X-Factor winners produce, but so what? I don’t buy it.

      Lisa also said that “The Internet and the growth of social media has made their challenge a little easier in some respects and meant that they no longer have to rely on the major labels to get them into peoples ear space.” Well, exactly. So if we can now discover music without having to rely on major labels (or those damn non-independent record shops), why are we so concerned about the record shops or the major labels? I buy the music that I find by going to gigs, listening to Spotify, listening to 6Music (or should that also be banned, because it’s, like, so corporate, man?) and recommendations from mates. If the plebs want to buy a single by the X-Factor winner, let ‘em waste their money.

      • Lisa Harding 11:45 pm on December 14, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I too worked for HMV as a Christmas temp but the point I am making is this. Why should it be down to the major labels and subsequently the record shop to tell us what we can listen to? There is a wealth of music out there that is not necessarily mainstream that gets bypassed because a select few people at a music label or store THINK that its cool and thats what we should be listening to. Its the lack of freedom of choice and limiting of kinds of music that i am firmly against.

        As for being in the store when Joe Strummer died. Well he is my musical hero firstly. Secondly why should you have had to wait until the last customer had left the store before honouring someone who gave more to the music industry in terms of artistic integrity and musicianship than bland over produced pap like the Arctic Monkeys have ever done? It should have been played loud and proud when the shop was full in my opinion. My Strummer honour moment came at the end of a red hot chili peppers gig in Hyde Park when the put Redemption Song from Street Core on as the crowds were leaving. It was a summers evening, we had all had a great night and everyone was singing it softly – it was a real hair on the back of your neck moment.

        Jamie Archer was indeed a half way decent artist on there and look what happened to him. Ridiculed and out down at every turn by a weasel like Louis Walsh or Simon Cowell. Neither of those two would know what real music was if it slapped them in the face.

        You are misinterpreting what i am saying talking about the great soul singers. That was a different era and time and their voices in the main had songs written especially for them. They were one of a kind and of a time. Do you think they would last five minutes in todays market no? They don’t look right for a start and they cant shatter glasses like Mariah can. Its also not what people want these days.

        “It’s only in the last fifty years that we’ve expected our singers to ‘be in bands’ or write their own music, ”

        Erm, sorry thats incorrect. I don’t think anyone expects singers to always be in bands and i certainly would not say that this change has only happened in the last 50 years. Singers have been with or without bands dependent on genre since music began.

        “and only in the last thirty that we’ve taken this attitude that those who are only skilled in performing music are a lower class than those who write music.”

        Well that attitude certainly didn’t emanate from my post. I have utmost respect for musicians whether they write or perform. I was in the London School Symphony Orchestra as a teen and i don’t remember writing Mozart’s Horn Concertos but i do remember playing them.

        I should also add that whilst i play bass (badly) and classical guitar (equally badly) I cannot write songs and take great pride in playing along to the CDs in my collection. That doesn’t make me any less relevant as a musician in my mind. The fact that I am doing it for passion and enjoyment is the main element…. BUT I would not think myself so vain as to turn up on TV for 13 weeks (when i know i can sing and sang in 4 bands in my youth) and expect a £1 million recording contract after a major makeover and critique from the likes of Simon Cowell. Its pure vanity karaoke and NOT music. If you want to see that kind of music, by a PS3 and play Singstar and save yourself the voting phone call! Know what I mean?

        “So if we can now discover music without having to rely on major labels (or those damn non-independent record shops), why are we so concerned about the record shops or the major labels?

        Because they limit choice when it is not their place to do so. They make it harder of hard working musicians to make a living and they squeeze out talent in favour of looks and celebrity. There is no way that that is good for music and YES in my mind it has done irrevocable damage over the years and continues to do so.

        I wont buy what that dross produces either. I just wish others would wake up and smell the coffee is all!

        All IMHO of course

        Peace

        • Wulf 11:13 am on December 18, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          But it is now easier than ever to discover and enjoy all sorts of music outside the mainstream. “Pop music” has always been pretty vapid – think of all those years when you never saw an instrument plugged in on Top of the Pops.

          Surely major labels are the ones who have lost most ground in recent years, as they lose their stranglehold on international distribution and recording technology. The continued vitality of the dream of stardom, as evidenced by the popularity of The X Factor and the like, suggests even they have a way to go before their course is run.

          Music, by musicians with integrity and able to reach a wide audience of people who care, is probably healthier than ever.

  • Beta releases of music: how best to name and tag?

    Jennifer Moore 9:24 pm on November 26, 2009 | 17 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: digital formats, metadata,

    A possibly rather geeky, but ultimately practical, question, for people who make &/or listen to music in digital formats.

    Hello all – my first post here. Thanks to Steve for the opportunity!

    One of the things that’s very appealing to me about the new era of music on the net is the idea of beta releases. I really like the idea that as soon as a song’s ready I could upload some reasonable version of it, without committing myself to that as “the definitive version”.

    But then I’m wondering how those song files would best be named and tagged. Because wouldn’t it be a bit confusing for the listener to end up with multiple different versions of the same song, that all had the same name?

    OK, I’m thinking ahead here, as I’m still tinkering around with recordings at the moment. I’m just very aware that once a file goes out into the world, it’s out there forever. If I decide later on a better tagging convention, I can’t miraculously get back all the copies so I can upgrade the tags. So it seems like a thing to invent & think through before I start.

    Date vs version numbers

    In an earlier round of thinking about this, I already decided that for me, the date is going to be the best way to identify the different iterations.

    I considered extending the software analogy and using some kind of version numbers instead. But I’m pretty sure that nearly every recording I released would be v1.x (one point something). Less than one would imply it didn’t have all its bits yet, in which case I wouldn’t release it. And only rarely would a song reach v2.0, implying a major evolution or reworking. (Though, for other people, that might well be more likely than it is for me.)

    So I’m not sure that version numbers really add much over and above using the date – whereas they do have a disadvantage: the extra thinking! to decide “how big a fraction” was justified by each new version. (In any case, using the date has precedent in software versioning – Ubuntu, for example.)

    I don’t think I’m likely to release more than one version of the same song in a day, unless there were some kind of big mistake or malfunction which I needed to correct immediately. So the date should usually be sufficient to identify a particular release.

    Similar but better

    It’s also worth noting that in my case, all the iterations are likely to be pretty similar – so much so that even I might need to look at the date to know which was which quickly. I’m not usually trying to invent different versions of a song; for me usually it’s more like aspiring to an ideal version, which I never quite reach but try to get closer and closer to. The differences might only be the quality of emotion in the singing, or the fact that it was a few bpm faster or slower and that suits the song better, or that in the intervening time I practised the bassline some more with a metronome :-)

    So I don’t think it’s all that likely that people will prefer an older version and deliberately want to keep it – though I’m not ruling that out. What I’m more thinking of is the scenario where people are unwittingly listening to, and propagating to their friends, a not-quite-as-good version which according to me has been superseded. So I see it as very much in my interest to make it easy for people to see which is which.

    Where to put the label

    Well, but I’m not convinced that I want the actual song title to sprout a date. I mean, obviously that’s a fall-back position, one way to handle it, but it doesn’t seem very elegant to me. What belongs in the name space is the name.

    Now I know that the ID3v2 standard includes TDAT = Date. But I’m not sure if that gets displayed on a typical MP3 player – or, more generally, which tags do usually get displayed, that would enable the listener to see which version they were about to listen to. Or how easy it would typically be for the listener to choose to access that other tag data, especially on small portable players. I know that some display artwork, so I could include the date in the artwork – but not all do.

    I see there exists “TIT3 = Subtitle/Description refinement”… and there’s also the option of naming the actual file to include the date. But, again, I’m not sure how common it is to display either of those for the listener to see while listening (either optionally or by default).

    In which I note my ignorance

    I’m a bit hampered in thinking this through by lack of experience of relevant tech. Inconveniently in this context, the MP3 player I’ve used most is the Zen Stone, which doesn’t have a display at all!

    Also, the investigations I’ve done so far have been about MP3 tags in particular. But I’ll probably start using BandCamp shortly, and I know there you upload a high quality original and they auto-port it to other formats, putting in tags as they go. I’m imagining perhaps it keeps the basic filename and adds text to the filename to show the format, e.g. [songname]192kHz.mp3 or whatever – but I don’t know if all the other formats it uses have equivalent tag fields, or what.

    Key questions

    So…

    Am I stuck with including dates in my song titles if I want the versions to be reliably differentiable on playback, do you think?

    And if I didn’t do that… for you as a listener, given your typical/favourite gear, how easy would it be for you to find out the date if you wanted to? Can you easily access the official date field? Is there a more convenient place for the date to be repeated, such as the artwork? If it were in the artwork, what percentage of the artwork square would it have to take up in order to be readable on your size of screen?

    Or, to come at the whole thing from another angle… people who have done beta releases already, how did you name and tag them? :-)

    All clues and ponderings very welcome…

     
    • Steve 12:27 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Jennifer, this is SUCH a great question. I need to give it some serious thought. It has all kinds of implications for the ’semantic web’ or whatever it is we’re climbing towards with the accumulated metadata of the new-web. Brilliant question, great spelling out of the various problems. Hopefully the wise and learned nerds that frequent here will has some suggestions :)

      • Jennifer Moore 10:59 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks, that was a lovely comment to wake up to!

        It did strike me that if anyone in my “network” were interested in this particular specialist corner of data geekery, they’d probably be hanging out here – hence login request :-)

      • Beatrice Boltz 8:02 pm on December 5, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        May I have a login for this site please? Thank you so much! I would be so happy to be involved with this wonderful forum on music! ~Beatrice Boltz

    • John Worthington 2:03 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I use a partial name and a number. So an intermediate version of “Drawings in the Dust” is dust3.mp3. Each new mix gets a new number. And yes geeks, they’re unique and monotonically increasing. The operating system dates the files anyway. If ut’s an outside project, I keep a spreadsheet with the name, date, and what’s changed in that version.

      Philosophically, I really want the “beta” versions to feel like beta versions Hence the limited name. These beta releases in my case have a limited distribution and a limited life. In a perfect world, they would all magically disappear once the final version was released.

      • Jennifer Moore 9:29 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Interesting. Your example demonstrates that if you know the status at release time, the labelling problem is rather simpler.

        For me, it’s not as clear-cut and binary as that. I’m even questioning now whether “beta” is the right term in my case; I’ve been thinking of them in those terms, and it seemed to fit here partly because I knew you all would know what I meant, but perhaps in my case they’re really better labelled “iterative versions”.

        There is at least one unambiguous binary transition point: where they get put on a CD album. And in my mind that does seem to have some kind of implication that I’ve decided a version is “good enough” in some sense.

        But I don’t expect to know “in the moment” when I’ve got to that version. It’s an integral part of how I work to do a recording and leave it for a bit, and then discover what it sounds like when I come back to it “with fresh ears”. And then it could go either way: either “Hmm, but such-a-thing doesn’t sound quite right now” or “Oooh yes, I like this”.

        And for me, part of the point of betas-or-whatever-you-call-them is being able to share things at that interim stage – being able to share them before I’m sure “yeah, this is good, this can stand as my representation of this song”. Or to put it another way: I’d be releasing them before I’ve decided whether they’re betas.

        I don’t think it’s unrealistic at all to imagine that a release of mine might be “best available” for a year or more and yet still be superseded later. (Especially as I’m likely to prioritise recording unreleased songs over revisiting ones that are already out there in some form.) Or, conversely, that I might release something while thinking “I’m not sure about this”, only to decide later “Actually I like that version, it’s better than I’d realised!”

        So, a somewhat different problem from the one which is solved by your solution…

    • Wulf 9:26 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      A piece of music isn’t the same as a piece of software. The latter might have bugs that bring your machine crashing to a halt and “beta” is the get out clause that says “you asked for it”. Hopefully the same won’t be true with a piece of music!

      I liked what Miriam Jones did with her EP last year. If you pre-ordered, you could download (pretty decent) rough mixes before the CD itself was released. Steve did the same with his Lawson / Dodds / Wood trio.

      I wonder if the place to look though is not the world of software but the world of music bootlegging. I’ve not looked at it for a long time but, somewhere, there used to be a site where you could download and trade recordings from bands who were cool with the idea (like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones). With the bands that like to jam, I’m sure you can hear ideas developing into songs and songs mutating over the course of a tour and there might be some relevant protocols to borrow from there.

      • Jennifer Moore 10:19 am on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Bootlegging angle = good idea!

        Beta terminology: Hmmmmm. You’re right, it’s not the same. The more I think about this now, the more I think that beta is (in my case) the wrong analogy. (Though in practice, some beta software is pretty stable and only lacks some intended features, and sometimes the declaration of 1.0 is more of a ritual moment than a big increment in prime-time-readiness, so I think your characterisation of beta software is possibly a trifle unfair :-) )

        Re Miriam Jones & L/D/W, what strikes me is, this is the same paradigm as what John described above. There’s the “half baked” stuff of interest to fans, and then there’s the “final” version for people-in-general. I think those examples arguably do justify beta terminology – don’t you think that if those early releases had been given version numbers, they’d be less than one? correlated with the term “rough mix”?

        But this expectation that if there’s a hardware release (CD or whatever), then the “real version” correlates with the hardware release: it’s occurring to me now how old-world that assumption is. What if there’s never a hardware release? only an evolving series of digital files?

        which is why the bootlegging angle is a closer model for what I imagine myself doing – there’s no binary rough/final, and there are different versions spread over time, some or all arguably equally valid with others. (Though it differs in that the bootleg connoisseurs probably do want multiple versions.)

        Oh another better analogy just occurred to me – science. That any scientific theory is only provisional. And some of them have lasted a long time and not been disproven, but they still could be. That is a better metaphor for my song recordings.

        (Of course it doesn’t solve the tagging question yet ::laughing::)

        • Wulf 3:31 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          The pre-release bonus editions weren’t really half-baked; perhaps not as trimmed and polished but I haven’t thrown either set out in favour of only listening to the “hardware” release.

          Moving away from those examples, how about the world of jazz? That is a genre which prides itself on constantly refining and redefining tunes and solos. Even an artists own works will vary from recording to recording – if I wanted to tell you what I’d been listening to specifically I’d have to tell you something like “Ron Carter’s version of Autumn Leaves from his 1973 Village West recording”. Whether that is better or worse than any other recordings of the track, by Carter or other artists, is a matter for debate. You can however clearly define which version you are talking about – for a track name, the date would be enough given other ways of finding out details like where and who.

          • Jennifer Moore 10:59 am on November 28, 2009 Permalink | Reply

            The pre-release bonus editions weren’t really half-baked

            Oh OK, I withdraw that label then. (No offence intended to any of the musicians!) But I still think that the term “rough mix” implies some connotation of <1.0 status.

            I haven’t thrown either set out in favour of only listening to the “hardware” release.

            ::perks up at the sound of a possible data point::

            Have you ever stored both at once on an MP3 player or in music-file management software, and if so, how did they show up different? Or have you only played the hardware copy on hardware so far?

            how about the world of jazz?

            Hmm yeah, another useful comparison.

            You can however clearly define which version you are talking about – for a track name, the date would be enough given other ways of finding out details like where and who.

            Yes. So then my question would be how in practice those tracks are tagged, when they appear as digital files. (I can imagine, for instance, two tracks with the same name but different album artwork.) Got an example?

            • Wulf 2:22 pm on November 28, 2009 Permalink

              Both have got separate folders for the pre-release tracks, which include “rough” or “rufmix” in the filenames. The idea of being unedited is also included in the file tagging. It works well although it does assume that there is only one pre-release version.

              In effect, it is like having another album by each of them. The same is true for different jazz performances – each is clustered under an album.

              Perhaps one way to go would be to have a “virtual album” for each month or quarter or year, depending on how often you expect to revise tracks. You can then identify each song by its name and the time period it appeared in. If you do several mixes over a short period, you could always append a suitable descriptor to each song name (eg. “Jennifer’s Song – handrum mix”, “Jennifer’s Song – multivox mix”).

              Another approach might be to name every song including year, month, date and even hour and minute to pinpoint when you decided it was ready for others to hear (eg. my_song.2009112813.mp3). Period based directories would still form a way of organising these into virtual albums for the purpose of doing things like tracking who is playing what.

              Wulf

    • Mike K Smith 12:25 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      A service like SoundCloud allows you to upload NEW versions of existing tracks, overwriting the track that’s already there. If you label your track in MP3 tags (comments field?) with SoundCloud then you could use SoundCloud as your “development release” area and Bandcamp as your “production release” area. Any MP3 with SoundCloud in the tag somewhere is then identifiable as your development mix.

      It’s a little akin to using SourceForge or something like that for code development. I’ve been developing some code that sits in a SourceForge equivalent and gets tweaked, developed, new features and so to users is the “unstable but newest, latest” version. The version that gets uploaded to the “Official” release environment has to be tested, documented and is the pukka version that folks download if they want to know that it’s stable.

    • Bryan Chalmers 2:47 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I wonder if a site like Soundcloud could be persuaded to implement versioning facilities and uploaders would have the option, rather than overwriting a track, to upload a new version along with an update history. The naming and labeling issues would still need to be addressed but I like the idea of the infrastructure being available to track updates.

      This would both allow people to listen to tracks as they are being developed but also to go back and listen to earlier versions of their favourite tracks.

      • Wulf 3:40 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I think that would be very useful. Sometimes you build a deeper emotional connection with a particular version of a particular song – it might not be what the artist currently considers to be the best version but it is the one you have spent time listening to, perhaps at an important point in your life.

        Maybe that is where the beta idea could work – tunes which are put up as works in progress but with no promise of being maintained forever. In contrast, a tune might have several “release” versions which form the artists discography and those would be kept available as long as possible.

        The latter would be what we are used to, particularly in genres like jazz. The former is more like what you would get if the musician in question were a local friend of yours and you sometimes popped by for a cup of tea and got to hear what they were practising.

        • Bryan Chalmers 4:13 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          I like that analogy. I think one of the better ways that some musicians use the web is to allow us to metaphorically “pop in for a cup of tea and to see what they are practicing”.

      • Jennifer Moore 12:23 pm on November 28, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        rather than overwriting a track, to upload a new version along with an update history.

        Yes. I already plan for each song to have a homepage on my own site, and the homepage link to be included in the file – so that would be a natural home for versioning info (not reliant on Soundcloud).

        On the other hand, reading your comment I’m also thinking the music file itself could perhaps include a comments field for documentation of previous releases of the same song. It could certainly include a suggestion to check the home page for later releases.

        On the other other hand… the problem I’m least feeling I have a solution for isn’t deciding what to embed – it’s where to embed it so that the average user (a) realises it’s there and (b) can easily access it while listening.

    • Terence Eden 10:18 pm on November 27, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Two things strike me.

      Modern recorded music is a lot like software. You take various elements, all on different tracks, and cut and fade between them – sometimes adding effects to a single track or to the whole thing.

      You need a way to keep pace with all those different versions. Something like SVN, CVS, GIT. I’m sure there’s dedicated musical software.

      That way, you can release the “source code” to your music.

      Imagine, if you will, that you could download The Beatles’ Sgt Pepper in multi-track format. You could replace the horn section that you never liked with some saxophone. Because you’ve got the isolated vocals – before they’re mixed – you could sing in harmony with Paul, cutting John out of the equation. Don’t like the echo effect? Uncheck a button and / or replace it with something else.

      In your own music, you could take the vocal track from take one, the bass from take 27 and use the drums from an entirely different song. As long as you’ve versioned them all correctly.

      Open Source Music – versions, branched, forked, remixed. Could be very interesting.

  • The Future of Politics is Mutual

    Hannah Nicklin 8:30 am on November 9, 2009 | 38 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , , , , , wikipolitics

    sign of the times

    Image by Melvinheng on Flickr, shared via a creative commons license.

    This is not a post about the things that are wrong with our world. This is a post about how we make them right. Of course it is not exhaustive, and by no means is it intended to be a detailed and flawless solution, in fact it openly admits that fact, because that (you will see) it is the point.

    This post is in reaction to many things, but particularly in reaction to the recent #3strikes debate, the actions of Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, and a recently circulated confirmed rumour that suggests the same minister may have his sights set on the leadership of the Labour party. This is not a party political post, and I do not intend to argue why one man’s leadership would be bad for Labour, instead I intend to suggest that what this man represents is an outdated vision of politics, a vision that is bad for our country, and bad for our democracy.

    Our society (and although I will talk more generally, ‘our’ here refers to UK society) is governed. We have democratically elected governments who, on the whole, make decisions and enforce laws with the intention of bettering society. I do not believe that anyone gets involved in politics for any other reason but improving the society they live in. This is the desire of the BNP, just as much as it is the desire of mainstream parties, their vision of a ‘better’ society might be opposed to the majority, but that is why they are not in power. Largely speaking, the party in power is supposed to represent the majority vision of what a better society is, and then strive towards it.

    I do not believe that is currently so. Leaving aside first past the post reform and candidate selection, we wholly and entirely do not currently live in a democracy. The power is very much not ‘with the people’.

    The Story

    When Labour came into power in 1997, it was to the tune of a wholly broken opposition. 18 years of Conservative government had systematically deconstructed all that was of society and replaced it with the ethics of individualism. This was very good for a few, and catastrophic for a many. The many had finally realised. Labour won with more than just promises to renew, however, they won with what was for the first time, politics as marketing. It wasn’t just slogans, it was shiny adverts, they weren’t just promoting the values of the party, they were selling the story of New Labour.

    Something else very important happened in 1997. The death of Diana. Others have pointed out before me how this marked an important turning point, not in politics, but in the media. This was the media as story, news not as reporting events, but as representing emotions. The papers spoke as though they spoke for us as they ordered the Queen from Balmoral.

    Labour was in power without a credible opposition, and suddenly the press felt powerful. They could move the Queen to action. And someone needed opposing. If it was ‘The Sun Wot Won It’, The Sun could also oppose it.

    Story is a very hard thing to fight. It is much older than democracy, much older than society.

    That was the beginning of the era of Spin. Labour had ridden into power on a narrative, and the mainstream media had assumed the role of opposition using the same. One proposed a story of a better society, the other claimed to represent the stories (wishes) of the people who lived in it.

    You notice how neither of these groups are made up of ‘us’?

    This is the politics that politicians such as Peter Mandelson, David Cameron and (yes, even) Boris Johnson represent. (Can you think of a better story than the bumbling fool made good?)

    An Information Economy.

    Spin is all about distribution. Spin is about controlling the narrative of politics; it is about packaging and marketing your version of events. Spin requires complete control of information.

    Spin is not working. Our society has grown out of it. Our country has been made undemocratic because of it. Our politicians do not fear the people, they fear the press. The people do not trust their politicians because the press exposes the antiquated attitudes and secrecy within their ranks. However the Press only constructs an oppositional story, it does not deconstruct it. The press is also not run for anything but the benefit of sales. No matter how well standing the broadsheet, how ubiquitous the tabloid. The mainstream media choose their story, and then they spin their readers and politicians into it.

    The internet opposes and undermines that.

    We live in an information age. For better or worse that is something that must be accepted. There is a rival economy, and it consists of information, it is a world (democratically, one might say) built of a thousand individual narratives. No one claims to speak for others, if someone is championed, it is because one person had the words that echo with others’. In this context the politics of Peter Mandelson et al will not work. He is a clever man, and I hope clever enough to see that one voice, big business, Spin, the politics of ‘push’, are gone. This is the century of pull, this is the century that politics has to become mutual.

    Wikipolitics.

    Well, everything needs a title doesn’t it? (/a hashtag).

    I have blogged before about how I don’t believe in apathy, but I do believe in disengagement. I believe that British politics is due a reformation. I believe that we can demand that. Are you bored of the tone of the Labour government? Do you really believe that a Tory one will be different? Are you looking for a protest vote? A voice? You will not currently find it at the ballots.

    What is Wikipolitics?

    It is a starting point. It takes the open-source ethic and applies it to government. I don’t propose that we edit policy documents. I do believe that parliament should be opened up, demystified, and the power taken back. How do we do this? We’ve already started, look at projects such as Louder, 38 degrees, look at the Trafigura backlash, the Iran election, the G20 protests.

    We now live in a world where we construct our own media consumption, where we pull together, build our own stories. Politics and the mainstream media are clinging on to old methods of distribution and delivery.

    Whilst still acknowledging that at least 2/3 of the world does not have access to the internet (the UK figure is something like 30%, with a further 7-8% only having narrowband access – source) and those who do are likely to be from more affluent, developed backgrounds, we also need to be aware that instant publishing and access to our own media channels is incredibly empowering.

    We also need to pull ourselves out of the luxury of political disempowerment. It is our responsibility to be involved in politics. If it is not one with which we wish to be involved, then we need to change it.

    Reformation, Reclamation.

    We need to tell our parties: “Arm your backbenchers with Flips, with Audioboo, with simple wordpress websites. Open up. Work in real-time. And don’t be afraid. We know you are, we know you are worried that you will be criticised, pulled apart, but please remember that although it has not been so before, that is what we mean by democracy. That is the open-source ethic. Let us participate”.

    This worked for Obama, he brought the US the highest election turnout in a century. But then he stopped. And that where it’s gone wrong. That’s when Murdoch took back over.

    The mainstream media has characterised us as a pack of baying wolves. The politicians have been characterised as lying snakes and fat cats. 2/3 people believe they cannot affect decision making. Trafigura, Jan Moir, proves we can. How about we take that to the rest of politics? How about we build our own wiki-guide to how we want to be engaged with, how we want to ask questions of the policy makers, of the parties? How about we offer a route that bypasses the mainstream media – taking honest debate and mobile video on the campaign trail, introducing them to the modern realities outside the political bubble, having a conversation, rather than being delivered a speech. You may argue that there’s no point in participating in a broken system, but how else are people to know how to fix it?

    Because this is important. As it currently stands it would take as many years to get women equal representation, as it would a snail to crawl the length of the Great Wall of China. As it currently stands we are bickering and buying our way to climate disaster. As it currently stands we live lifestyles of excess and complete unsustainability. And for all our excess, are we happy? Or are we to some degree living the lives and values that are sold to us – other peoples’ stories?

    We are facing a hyper-connected, global village era, politics cannot continue to be its own island.

    This is not a manifesto, it is a call to arms. And this is where I stop, because this is a story, too. It’s a story about us, but it’s still my version. We need to write an ending together. How can we open up the political process? What do we want to know? Do we think there should be more experts involved in policy making? Do we want to see cabinet meetings taking questions from Twitter? What tools can we offer? Comment. Engage. This is up to all of us. What can we build? (We have the technology). Go.

    – Hannah Nicklin is a brightly coloured and basically nocturnal playwright, blogger, academic and geek. She normally lives over at hannahnicklin.com, and is @hannahnicklin on Twitter.

     
    • Steve 2:24 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Hannah, this is awesome. Really inspiring stuff, and with an emphasis I’ve not really pursued before. I was talking earlier on in the week (with @kristinhersh on twitter) about the differences between Micro/Macro ‘news’ and its influence on politics – politics is played out in the very undemocratic world of the headline, the broad gesture, the ‘attention grabbing’ black and white statement, rather than in the nuance of personal, local, human stories.

      The inherent depersonalisation of ‘macro’ is what leads so many to label some group as ‘other’ – muslims, ‘darkies’, ‘gays’, northerners, southerners, posh people, chavs, pikeys – all meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and not terms that mean anything in the context of a personal micro-narrative. If someone mugs me, I’ve been mugged by someone, not by all young people, or all working class white males, or all black people… that doesn’t work as a story. If they put ‘Another Michael commits a mugging. Let’s outlaw Michaels’, in a headline, but if it’s ‘black youth kills pensioner’, that’s OK?

      Your call to BE the news, to democratise information, to do what Toby Moores talks of as being ‘distruptive in the gaps’, to fill a space that none of Big Media can get to and reclaim the right to tell our own stories that aren’t sensational, but are deep, nuanced and full of integrity, to seek solutions that put an end to sensationalist headlines rather than fuel them.

      This is great stuff, and I’m sure I’ll be back to comment more when my typing fingers catch up with my brain :)

      #awesome. :)

    • Terence Eden 2:35 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I’m reminded of this article PLEASE HELP. How can we save democracy?

      I’ll repeat a little of what I said there. What’s needed is not a revolution, it’s not a tearing up of the old order, it’s not taking arms against the establishment.

      What’s needed is participation.

      You mention Obama – the people who tweeted and blogged and donated weren’t doing it for democracy – they were doing it for a candidate or political party. That’s what the UK needs. Smart, educated and knowledgeable people need to join existing political parties. As the Zen Master said to the broken lightbulb, “Change must come from within”.

      I don’t much care whether you join the Lib Dems, Labour, Tory, Greens or any other party. But join and force them to raise their game. Find the local candidate that you believe in and show her how video-blogging will raise the level of debate for everyone.

      T

      • Steve 3:10 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        I actually think the line is somewhere between the two – a violent revolution would solve nothing, especially as we still have recourse to a democratic process, however broken and mangled it may be… Indeed, the current system is a race to attrition. We don’t have any way of changing the way things are done, though we can have a voice within those broken structures.

        The big problem for ‘democracy’ at the moment seems to be two-fold – firstly we’ve got a system where the dissemination process for political information has switched from being party activism AND news sources of all types to being dominated by Spin doctors and game-playing. the whole idea of an ‘official’ leak is hideous. It’s a game that benefits politicians and news-rags, but not people looking for proper info, or context.

        So what do we do? Having more party activists isn’t going to help if they are ignored, or indeed when none of the parties are representing any kind of ideological spread, just different flavours of the same shit-sandwich.

        The Labour party is chock full of people who now HATE the new labour project. They see the failures of the Blairite/neo-thatcherite agenda, the monumental shift to the right, the tacet suggestion that global financial markets are the only metric of national ’success’… There’s no big discussion happening *within* any of the parties about those questions because it isn’t *allowed* to happen, and there certainly isn’t any kind of meta-change about to happen to facilitate a more representative form of democracy.

        It sadly does appear that those kind of changes DO tend to happen in countries facing the very real thread of violence, if not all out civil war (x-ref the kind of reforms that Museveni introduced in Uganda a few years back, which were transformative, systemic and probably pulled the country back from civil war (not counting the civil war that’s already going on with the Lord’s Resistence Army on the northern border) … but still didn’t manage to deal with some of Uganda’s root problems)

        So, I love the idea that by talking about solutions, dealing in nuance, in the personal, the important, the non-headline grabbing stuff, the transformative stuff that can at any point plug into a political process looking for change – we are getting on with it, demonstrating what happens when politics loses touch with people, and we’re not being brought down by the horribly depressing picture of political engagement painted by the press.

        Clearly, political structure is required. However, much of the structure we currently have is built around mitigating against the problems of 18th and 19th century communications methods. Many more things can be voted on, many more things can be put to the people, many more things can be discussed and debated on a wider scale.

        We trust our legal system to the opinions and decisions of randomly selected panels, yet we continually hand over the power for longer form governance and change to the kind of personality that would seek a job like that in this day and age. That’s kind of scary.

        I’m not, as is obvious from this, clear about what the ‘new thing’ is. But I think engagement in political thought and impetus outside of but alongside the attricious systems we have at the moment is a good thing.

        But please, by all means, join a party too ;)

    • Hannah Nicklin 2:48 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Hi Terence, thanks for commenting. I completely agree that we don’t need a revolution. I do not think revolutions are useful, because all they do is replace on e power structure with another, the key is in the word – revolve – they just fall apart again. What I am calling for here is a reformation of a our political system, in participation, policy forming, and in the broken machine of parliament itself.

      I wonder how many people think it’s right that MPs swear to serve the Queen, and not the populace? Semantics, perhaps, but I believe those kinds of things are important.

      Of course people who supported Obama weren’t doing so for democracy- they were doing so for what they believed in – that however, is democracy. Democracy is the effect, not the cause. We are the cause, and (in my opinion) it is our fault that the system is currently stalling.

      What we’re facing is a kind of chicken/egg situation – people aren’t interested in party politics because it feels irrelevant. But it’s irrelevant because we’re not interested. I think we understand that needs to change, but what is the best way of doing that? And of getting a lot of people to do it?

    • Claire Thompson 3:19 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Hannah, this is great, and I think you’re spot on with the sentiment.

      I think that there are some issues that merit further discussion (and I guess that space is a real issue in a blog – whole days worth of conferences could be dedicated to this one!).
      1. trad media may have a bias, but generally it’s not too hard to spot (the headline differences on a big story are a pretty good indicator!) And I know a great many journalists who, if the ad team tries to interfere with the editorial, will do exactly the opposite of what the ad folk demand. They also have a legal requirement to check out the facts. They do this with varying degrees of integrity, granted, but however slow the BBC may be in getting info out, when it does it’s more often factually right than wrong. (My own sense is that media will become more ‘tribal’ – specialist – and will change to become more blended across a variety of media, including ’social’; but that’s another story)
      2. VERY IMPORTANTLY there are a lot of people who have no access to wiki politics/on-line resources, or who exercise their right not to want to play with computers. Or who simply don’t have the language, skills or other capacity for inclusion.
      3. Spin happens on-line too, and it’s sometimes less obvious who’s pulling the strings (I’ve lost count of how many ‘communicators or new media gurus there are!) Which also leads nicely into issues of identity and security.
      4. It was the old media property (Guardian) that broke the Trafigura story. What worries me slightly is that
      (a) it took a political story to make it news, the poisoning scandal behind it was 2006 and scarcely merited a blink. A blogger might not have had the resources/personal protection to stick with a story like that.
      (b) Was it really bad PR? For you or I it might seem that way, but Trafigura (who I had never heard of before) has had it widely advertised that it will do anything to ensure its cheap services; Carter Ruck has had it advertised that it is regarded as the legal scourge of the media; their PR company, Bell Pottinger, has had it advertised that it’s prepared to represent – and even speak for – anyone in a tight hole, no matter what they’ve done. It may well be that the story served them well reaching the kind of customers that they want?
      (c) I have no doubt whatsoever that we were all used by the Guardian (cleverly, and because we wanted to be, mind) into reacting the way we did to Trafigura – great timing, emotive issue etc.
      5. Calm and reasoned still don’t get enough mindshare. A lot of it is still flash in the pan. And if you look at what was tweeted out whilst the shootings which were happening in the military camp at the weekend were happening, there were apparently some very un-credible sources.
      6. Having conversations in public doesn’t always give the right answer: politicians have lines to toe (wrongly, in my opinion – don’t get why we allow whips) and for them it’s frightening to be wrong. If we put people on the spot we may get canned answers which haven’t been thought through, but because they’re public are hard to retract or develop? And debate can be presented as rupture or disagreement?
      7. I’m not at all sure about dicatating to either media or politicians about the tools or platforms we should use. I do realise that you have used Wordpress etc as examples, but we should allow people space to innovate and use whatever media is there (trad, social, outdoor, immersive etc) in their own way to find the people that they want to connect with. It would be a tragedy if the pain of a lot of people (some great journalists with lots of integrity, amongst others, are losing their jobs) are going through was replaced with yet another ’supermedia’. It is also, IMHO, too early – we are at the bottom of a steep hill of innovation, and as online, mobile, trad media, augmented reality start merging together we are at the start of some very exciting times for connecting and communicating in new ways.

      So yes, we can bypass – and I love the example of the environment where there is NO excuse for apathy – part of the answer lies with the individual. Yes, I understand the desire to organise.

      But I do think we need to be conscious and mindful of what we are replacing it with; as well as to make sure that we continue the worthwhile debate that you have begun here.

      • Hannah Nicklin 8:56 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Hi Clare, thanks for commenting. As you have handily set out your points numerically, I will reply using same :)

        1) “trad media may have a bias, but generally it’s not too hard to spot” I’m definitely not suggesting that trad media has no role in an information age, but I do think that they need to reclaim the ground of reporting and let go of the age of telling. And how easy is the bias of trad media to spot, really? A great deal of my peers were never taught the analytical skills or the background knowledge to question a story or publication. I know the NUJ code of conduct does promise facts, but numerous times each day tabloids are revealed to have lied, mislead and incited. Equally the black and white form of the headline (which Steve mentions above) dehumanises, and is about attention, not truth. Sure the BBC is rarely factually wrong, but it engages far too much in speculation, which often spills over into hysteria and their own brand of spin – fulfilling the story they want to tell. It’s lazy, and it’s at best not useful, at worst damaging (see the run on Northern Rock).

        2) As I mention in the post, I am very, very aware that only 1/3 of the world, and ~70% of the UK have bb internet access, which is why any attempt to make online spaces truly discursive also needs to discuss access and inclusion. This is a no-brainer as far as I’m concerned. However that is also no reason to exclude tech and socmed as a solution for the 70% who are online, and indeed the ethics of an online world (wiki, open source, communication not speech making) are equally applicable to RW situations. It wouldn’t just be bringing parliament into an information age, it would be reclaiming the lines of communication, which IMO can only benefit all.

        3) Spin is much, much easier to spot online, because it is hyper connected- everything is linked, if you are making claims and your source says different, people will pull you up. The media gurus prey on those who are not information-age savvy, or who haven’t yet understood it’s a conversation, not a sell. Advancing the open ethics of this world will combat that.

        4. Again, I am not calling for an end to trad media. But note that it broke online (at the Guardian, who are actually one of the best mainstream papers for online engagement (particularly with their open data policies)) before it was on paper, and the source of the gag, and the question it was preventing, were picked up and published by bloggers.
        a) This could have been a sooner and non-political campaign had the victims and the society to which the harm was done had greater access to personal media channels.
        b) As far as I’m concerned the worth of it as PR is irrelevant, because PR is and should become irrelevant. We do not need intermediaries. It also revealed a good deal about our own libel laws, which I believe are being changed as a result of it. Trafigura and Carter Ruck are the symptoms of a sick society, while the society is still sick, they will still profit. You can argue quite credibly about the limitations of one form of social protest, but if the answer is sticking with the status quo, it’s the wrong one.
        c) yes the Guardian used the online world, but to the ends our world should be used – towards truth.

        5) I hear lots of people talking about the lack of reason and the problem with real-time reactions. Fine, that’s is an admitted flaw with live-blogging, but twitter is just one of the tools – not the whole box, twitter is very very good at getting on the ground and immediate info and interviews out, and for reactiving to live events. Blogging can be used for opinion pieces, reporting, or investigative journalism, Audioboo for interviews or thoughts, I would love to see someone put up a Edward R. Murrow style youtube channel, there’s so much possible, I think that at this stage, focusing on the few flaws is obstructive.

        RE point 6. I also cover that in the post- we need to admit the fallability of our representatives, and they need to be allowed to communicate to as human beings – if you reform the way we have conversation, holding it in public should become less of a problem

        And RE 7. I hope very much from the tone of my piece that I am not suggesting dictating anything – but rather the offering of tool kit- of a method of communication and a safe route to genuine interaction. I am so bored of signing petitions and writing letters to get stilted, party line responses. But without the press trying to oppose, maybe, just maybe, we might get real responses.

        Finally it is never, ever too early, you have to look ahead; you have to make leaps, because you have to question the ethics of a place before you are in it. That is the ONLY way to be “conscious and mindful of what we are replacing [trad media] with”. To quote Charles Leadbetter: “Think pirates, think mavericks, think renegades. They will re-form our world, they can tell us what the future might look like.”

        Thanks for reading. H.

        • Claire Thompson 9:58 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          So how do we start?
          I think you amy have hit the nail on the head: we need to admit the fallability of our representatives, and they need to be allowed to communicate to as human beings – if you reform the way we have conversation, holding it in public should become less of a problem.

          Good God – we might even end up witrh a democracy! (I think one or two tribal systems in developing countries may be laughing up their sleeves at us!)

          So now the conversation is started, where to from here?

          • Hannah Nicklin 12:47 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

            Well, that is a decision for all of us to make, but starting a wiki up in order to further this conversation. To allow places for postering and discussion, but also for easy access of collated and succint information, mightn’t be a bad place to start, I’m looking into it… :)

      • Helen Lambert 2:37 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        If we put people on the spot we may get canned answers which haven’t been thought through, but because they’re public are hard to retract or develop?

        I actually think online communication demonstrates the opposite attributes! Modern politics is full of live interviews, question times, panels, press conferences, all filmed and recorded live and broadcast live over TV and radio. This has the advantage of immediacy that traditional print media lack. But online communication has the advantages of both. It’s immediate and live – but slower than in-person chat. You can take the time to think and compose a reply.

        This not only makes it less easy to excuse politicians who say stupid shit, it makes the conversation more accessible. I’ve been to a few City Hall meetings and it always strikes me, every time, the extent to which politics is dominated by confident, charismatic, good looking, intense, charming people, who are well-spoken and warm and can convince you of anything. The rest of us, without those skills of persuasion and charm and diplomacy, can often feel we don’t stand a chance – even if we can get a word in edgeways, we don’t have the same stature, somehow – or we aren’t as well-spoken, or just don’t have the experience of speaking eloquently in public. But more subtly, I have noticed how many of those in power project a personal authority which is difficult to challenge face to face, however much you may disagree with them at a distance.

        Online communication opens this up. You don’t have to be good looking or charming to speak powerfully online. It not only makes it easier for more people to engage on a more level playing field, in text, but it also would reduce the amount of verbal faff that goes on so much in BBC politics. All the “And I’m going to tell you why that is, that’s because …” methods of answering questions, all the automatic verbal filler that gives the speaker more thinking time. You wouldn’t have people shouting over each other, you wouldn’t have the ruder person on the panel drowning the others out, you wouldn’t have posh accents talking over regional ones and men talking over women and everything else you hear all the time on radio and TV. I’m not saying online conversations are perfect, but they have advantages which I think could be useful right now.

        Also, think about the potential of online conversation. Previously, this sort of live conversation has been between a small handful of people, with a passive audience. Interaction takes place in the form of solicited questions from the audience, or phonecalls – that’s not a real exchange of ideas.

        Compare this with the comment threads on the big political blogs, where a single conversation can include 800 or more people. When have that many people ever, in the history of the human race, been able to simultaneously and actively engage in the same conversation? It even beats the Athenian ecclesia, where people had to take it in turns to speak while everyone else listened, and speakers had to be approved in advance.

        Democracy worked in Athens because it was small. Representative democracy hasn’t worked: we need a new methodology. The Internet offers unique opportunities for including the vast numbers of people who need to participate for it to work these days.

        Like you Hannah, I only have vague ideas. But I’m definitely on board and fascinated to see where this conversation leads.

    • Moof (Giles Radford) 3:24 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Of course, it’s a huge step from complaining about Trafigura and signing petitions and occasionally going to a campaign rally or somesuch to actually changing the way the country is run.

      Trafigura was a landmark action in that a stance was taken by some people on twitter and the blogosphere (how I hate that word) about transparency. To a certain extent, egged on by the media who do have a phenomenal power to mobilise people. One could compare this with the Jan Moir backlash, a similar reaction to a news report. I mostly saw these on Twitter rather then UK media, as I was out of the country at the time.

      The problem is that it’s relatively easy to mobilise people for a quick uprising on a point of principle. These two examples were easy for the average person to understand, and summarise in 140 characters. The Jan Moir article was long, I suspect many people didn’t read the half of it, and there is a certain anti-daily-mail bias in the mostly left-leaning and young group that comprise Twitter. Stephen Fry tweting about it was definitely a help. Similarly, Trafigura was a point of principle. Are there any numbers out there on who actually read the report on Trafigura once it was released in the Guardian? I know I haven’t.

      On the downside, let’s look at some campaigns that haven’t had as much of a success, even with a similar amount of social media exposure.

      No2ID has made many a stand on the matter. “I don’t want ID cards” we tweet. “ID cards violate our privacy” we blog. It’s made it into the media, and it has changed the presentation of the idea quite a bit. I dont’ think it’s substantially changed the real policy, maybe delayed it to a certian extent. I, personally, don’t believe that the ID card thing will go away, even if the government changes next year, as well seem to take a fait accomplí. A quick check of Wikipedia reminds me that it was originally a John Major proposal, and I know that a predecessor of the National Identity Register was being mocked in an episode of Yes, Minister. Oh, and a certain Mr. Blair mentioned as a matter of policy, two years before becoming prime minister, that we should scrap ID cards and spend money on putting more coppers on the street, neither of which he seems to have done.

      It’s not to say that No2ID haven’t made a change in policy, they have, but it’s too little, and it can still be changed via back-room political manouvres.

      In this age of “tl;dr” (something one person said to me about *this* article) and generally shortening attention spans, all a civil service department needs to do is hold out and people will lose interest. It took 15-20 years for ID cards, what else can wait? It worked for the Irish government with regards to the Lisbon treaty.

      And we can be spun. They’re not 100% sure how yet, but we can be. I am too jaded by the effects I’ve seen good marketing have not to believe that we can be spun. We’ll demand greater transparency, and we’ll get it. We’ll be so deluged with data that only a few people can really be bothered to slog through it and actually make some sensible summaries. And then it’ll come down as to which blogger or journalist or MP or scientist you’ll believe. Maybe it’ll produce a new kind of politician – one who weighs in and is opinionated online and respected everywhere, but has no power within parliament.

      So how does one go about making policy in a newly-connected world? I mean, I’m certainly not qualified to weigh in an opinion on this country’s agricultural policy. Ultimately, I’ll be unable to verify the benefits or downsides of an agricultural subsidy, so need to trust the experts on it. As such, my input on a whole bunch of things when opining on the Budget would be best guesses at most based upon what I’ve read written by others. Much like I assume the real politicians in the world should function, though I’m uncertain that they do all the required reading.

      Also, we’d want to avoid the mob rule effect. My gut feeling, for example, is that on a public consultation about road traffic laws, most people would opine that speed limits on motorways should either be raised or removed completely, the way most brits think the German Autbahn works. I’ve not seen any accident statistics recently, and even if I did, I’m not certain that I would trust them, or have the time to do the diligent research and thinking behind it. More to the point, I’m unsure that it would help. The government tells us drink-driving increases the accident rate, as does talking on a phone, or speeding. And yet that doesn’t stop millions of people a day doing all three. When was the last time you drove or were driven somewhere in a medium or long journey and didn’t speed in at least some part of the trip?

      So, there’s a gut feeling effect that happens. If we were to be consulted on traffic laws, would we do the sensible thing and look at the numbers and come to conclusions based on the evidence, or would we give in to our need for speed? After all, the Germans have no speed limit on the Autobahn, why can’t we?

      The Spanish have 24-hour alcohol licensing. And yet they don’t have anywhere near as much problem with alcoholism and binge drinking as we do in the UK. It almost feels like the 24-hour licensing was a failed experiment. Who knows how it’ll turn out in the long term?

      So yes, there is a potential for huge power here. At some point, it’d be interesting to see if a policy could be formed by a public consultation using this sort of internet-connected social media 2.0 wizardry. It’s goign to take quite a few false starts, and we’ll still need professional politicians at the top of it at the end of the day. There is room for change, and it’ll happen.

      Tell you what, rather than just philosophising about it and waxing on and on. Why don’t we try it? Let’s pick an area of policy that is lighly or little legislated on in the UK, something that is understandable to the average layman, and try to form a coherent policy for it using our online tools. Hopefully we’ll get a few of the more connected MPs interested in it enough to be able to take it to parliament, and we can see how that process then affects our process.

      I feel this approach is much less controversial, and certainly newer then just trying to challenge the status quo, something that is difficult to do for complex things, and has limited results. What do you think?

      • Hannah Nicklin 9:24 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Hi there Moof,

        My first question for you is why is it a problem that it is relatively easy to mobilise people for a quick uprising? Surely the problem is not that very useful burst of support and energy – but how you sustain it? I did read all of the Guardian article, but that is because global and environmental politics is a particular interest of mine (or at least something on which I wish to educate myself). I understand that you could not run a country where every decision had to be understood and voted on by ever citizen, that is why we have elected representatives. The problem is that they demonstrably don’t know how to represent us – which is where wikipolitics, unmediated communication could come in. Likewise I think more ‘expert’ knowledge should be involved in policy making – just as people across twitter trusted the judgement of people who *had* read the article. I’m not saying Trafigura and Moir are complete expressions of the aims of any new type of politics – but what they are is a starting point.

        No2ID equally, you might say, represents the trouble of sustaining a campaign against a political movement which is driven by a lazy, complicit right wing media campaign against the bogey-monster that is Immigration. Everything my blog opposes.

        Being still comparatively young (does 25 still count as young, these days) I of course have yet to be really put through the mill, politically. But I have to say that I truly believe the online world is a much harder place to spin, sure they can deluge us in data, data is what computers *do*. There are people out there who love visualising it, using it, crunching it – the Guardian in particular have been very clever about that. It is important to be aware of the traps of a movment, to constantly check ourselves, but no reason not to press on, to try, at least. I don’t know what else to do but fight.

        And to return to my previous point RE your last one- no you might not be qualified to talk about agricultural policy, but if you don’t live in an agricultural constituency – you wouldn’t have to be. And I’ll echo again I think a much wider selection of scientists and ‘experts’ (kind of how the lords are used I suppose, though clearly I am opposed to the Lords [on principal – not that there should be a second house – that’s up for debate]) – that information should be widely harvested and concisely spread. The facts of a budget are for a very few, but I know that I want the health system investing in, private education and healthcare abolished, I know that I want support for the arts and sciences, and a new generation of green jobs supported. I know I don’t think anyone should be allowed to earn over £100,000, and am happy to pay 100% tax on anything over. On a local level I’d also like to know how much of my money is micro managed away. They tell us it’s too complicated; they tell us it’s dull, and they act with a sombre sobriety. It does a very good job of making it inaccessible.

        Finally, I am not suggesting a shift in the power (“I do not suggest we edit policy documents”) As our society currently stands that’s not practical. Our politicians should still make decisions, but they should be enabled to be our advocates, to be relevant, and to communicate.

        I think communication, rather than policy working, is a more useful way to start – tools (though you’re right, developed through practice). If there’s a movement for it, I think there’s a lot to be said for setting up a wiki, maybe even a manifesto, to those ends…

        • Helen Lambert 2:59 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          The problem is that they demonstrably don’t know how to represent us – which is where wikipolitics, unmediated communication could come in. Likewise I think more ‘expert’ knowledge should be involved in policy making

          This is an exciting train of thought.

          My experience of London Assembly Members is that the good ones are very influenced by what their constituents tell them. Denny, who runs Police State UK with me, has told me about his old Labour MP in Milton Keynes, Brian White. Apparently he spent some time every week going door-to-door round his constituency, asking people if there was anything they wanted to talk to him about, anything bothering them, anything they wanted him to do something about. We both hate Nu-Labour but we agreed that sort of active engagement might well be enough to get us to vote for someone regardless of party affiliation.

          But this sort of engagement is rare. And with the current distance between MPs and their constituents – the vast numbers of people in each constituency, the political disenfranchisement many of them feel, the only way to get in touch being emails, faxes and letters which will get a form reply if anything – makes it easy for them to get away with staying disengaged.

          Denny said once that he’d considered running as an independent candidate and pledging, if he won, to run online mini-referendums on every issue he had to vote on in Parliament, and to vote in a way that genuinely represent his constituents, regardless of whether they agreed with his personal ethics. We debated it back and forth. It’s a flawed but compelling idea.

          First we need to fix the problems with candidate selection (what do you think of the ideas put forward in Open Up, such as open primaries?), then we need to facilitate direct public engagement between representatives and their constituents – a wiki format would be ideal. Representatives who didn’t engage would face consequences – if they persisted in refusing it might have to lose them the seat. The wiki format would facilitate fact-checking, research, comparing differing reports and bringing in the opinion of experts. It would be chaotic, possibly a much bigger and messier project than Wikipedia, but I think wikipedia is a testament to what the public can achieve. Sort of like a counterpoint to the comments on Have Your Say.

          You’d need language support, of course. Accessibility is an issue, but there could be free-to-use terminals in all public libraries, schools, universities, public centres – perhaps they would only connect to this system, to prevent people hogging the terminal to use Facebook.

          MySociety have already pioneered online tech to facilitate engagement … I think something like this is the next step. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that you want something like Google Wave, with built-in live language support, live chat and playback features, rather than a traditional wiki. Wave’s still in beta (although if you don’t have an invite and want one, we have some spares), takes a lot of memory and a fast connection, and still has lots of bugs. But I think it has a lot of potential in this context.

        • Helen Lambert 3:07 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          Oh, and regarding the Lords/second house, have you seen any of the ideas for democratic reform being published as part of the Power2010 project? Thought you might be interested in this proposal by Salman Shaheen:

          The biggest potential drawback to proportional representation is that it might remove one of the most popular elements of British democracy: the local MP who hears the concerns of their constituents, represents them to Parliament and faces losing their seat if they fail to do so. This is where the Lords come in. I propose an upper house composed of constituency politicians directly elected by the alternative vote system to sit alongside a lower house that proportionately represents the wider passions of the people.

    • Liam Barrington-Bush 3:30 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Really, really great post Hannah!

      I’m especially interested in how we can make sure the elements of technology that you talk about shifting the terms of debate, can really broaden demoncratic involvement beyond those of us already steeped neck-deep in the medium…

      You and I probably hand-wrote letters to politicians and others in power before MySociety emerged. We probably signed petitions before the Number 10 website launched. And technology has made these kinds of actions much easier for *us* (and many others) to do, but there are still many, many people who haven’t engaged in either the more difficult traditional way, or through the channels of the internet…

      I know you’re not just talking about actions themselves, but the broader dialogue/ discussion/ processes that can influence how political decisions are made. Either way, New Labour championed a new elite – ‘the Guardianista’ – to push their cause and build their story; how do we make sure that the Wikipolitic doesn’t end up inadvertently championing the still relatively priviliged strata that engages most actively through these tools?

      Very curious – I could see many of the same barriers which have kept local politics off of local peoples’ radars, still permeating the world of e-democracy… ensuring basic access is one major piece of the puzzle, but there are more fundamental questions about why people engage – on or ‘off’line…

      Great start to the conversation though!!

    • Denny 4:01 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Do we want to see cabinet meetings taking questions from Twitter?

      I was at the first public meeting of the MPA’s Civil Liberties Panel last week, and I was live-blogging it via the PoliceStateUK account on Twitter. Towards the end of the meeting I did ask the panel a question which someone unknown to me personally had asked me on Twitter, and it got answered (in part, and in part noted for future action).

      It’s a start :)

    • Gordon Rae 4:24 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Thanks to Steve and Hannah for starting the ball rolling; you have made me very sad that I won’t be able to make it to £1.40 this week. I just have too many commitments in Devon to take 24 hours out of my working life. (sad face)

      Hannah, you lost me at Diana. I was working in St James’ St in 1997, and all of a sudden, huge crowds of people were walking past my office, carrying flowers. I used to go down to the palace after work to mingle with the crowd. The emotions spread from person to person as Mark Earls decribes in ‘Herd’ It was a strange experience, and a strange temporary collective, like being at the Cup Final of a sport I didn’t follow. I’m not sure how this fits your ‘Us’ and ‘Them’ theme. I felt I was part of a collective that I didn’t feel any sympathy with.

      The election of Blair’s Labour was a different story. I felt sympathy, but not membrship. They were definitely not ‘us’. They were a manufactured band we could vote for on a talent show. And there was no real promise to change the world. They appealed to the same voters and emphasised how much of the Conservatives’ values they shared.

      Politics today is made up of professional politicians. People who want to improve the society we live in do all kinds of things, from writing songs to training as doctor, but I think people go into politics because they want to be part of the government. My gut feeling is that they are the worst people to represent others. But they are the ones we’ve got.

      There are thousands of stories and conversations on the Internet, and they are all opportunities for dialogue about ways we could make our world a better place. We have a very literate and creative civil society. Our representatives are not representative of us. But what is? Unfortunately, only temporary collectives. We come together over something like Trafigura, or Stephen Gateley. And every time we feel a common humanity, there are different faces at the party, and there’s always people left out and ignored.

    • Andrew Eglinton 5:14 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      This is precisely what blogs are for. Brilliant post Hannah!

      Perhaps part of the reason why Politics clings to ‘old means of distribution and delivery’ is its perennial and profound distrust of popular agency (PDA?). Agency (to me) is the ability of x to exert effective action/influence over y, it is predicated on y’s belief that x is superior in the given context. The tacit deal of authority. As long as this belief is maintained, and media narratives are abundantly helpful in this regard, then status quo will preside.

      This distrust is manifest at most conjunctures between x and y. A good example, and somewhat relevant to the ‘Wikipolitics’ theme, is the pan-academic dismissal of Wikipedia as a non-authoritative means of reference. It is a hellfire debate that continues to rage and there’s little worth in reinstating it here.

      But the point is, how do you reconcile the redistribution of power (decentralization), the ‘demos’ in democracy, in a society permeated by a belief in social inequality?

      Marx’s Communist Manifesto was an attempt at addressing this flaw in our socio-political DNA, and many approve of it in concept, but history says it amounted to little more than dressing an old wound with new bandages – before long the blood reappears.

      So I agree that it does start with us, but I wonder whether it starts with our reconfiguration of the puzzle as is, or the reconfiguration of our relationship with the puzzle – impossible though it would seem to dislocate the two?

      I certainly share, as most here do, in the deep frustration with our current political puppet show and would gladly pledge support and contribution to another path.

      • Hannah Nicklin 9:34 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        That’s really excellently put Andrew, and important to note both sides of the relationship – we need to reconfigure ourselves and our understanding of our own responsibilities and relationship to society as well as the political system.

        As a side note (the new bandages image prompted it) I take issue with an awful lot about the system which is built on tradition, the costumes, the oaths, the process built on centuries of rotten wood. And think that has a good deal to do with alienating (yah-boo politics) from the wider public. Again, how to tackle this odd fascination with ‘tradition’ (which is not the same as history) is another thorny bush.

    • Patrick 5:16 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      This is a great post! I love it. It says everything I was trying to say, but does so more powerfully and effectively.

      Thing is – there is always a thing – though, that when decision-making is delivered to the people, we may not like the decisions. What if #Trafigura or #JanMoir had been about bringing back capital punishment? Or reducing immigration? Or sending Jews to concentration camps?

      We need to be careful: people taking power could work both ways. We might not be happy with what we create.

      Still, I love this post…

      • Hannah Nicklin 9:38 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        if we’re not happy with what we create, at least then we know who to blame!

        More seriously, reforms in education and poverty, cultural education too, and zeroing inequality would go a long way preventing people’s need to lash out at groups (which as far as I’m concerned are narratives, not realities)

        • Helen Lambert 3:32 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          Ah, an optimist after my own heart!

          Chicken-and-egg question: how to you get people to accept/vote through those reforms before they’ve been educated enough to understand why they’re necessary? And even though I am absolutely right with you, I’m aware that the people starting Hitler Youth probably thought they were doing the right thing too… there always needs to be provision and tolerance in society for a multitude of ideas for it to be healthy. We don’t actually want to turn everyone into little tolerant lefty clones, even if we wouldn’t mind if everyone spontaneously realised we were right.

          Like you, I believe the intolerance we’re discussing is a narrative rather than a reality, and I think it’s possible to massively reduce it by improving society. But that’s going to be a slow process – the older people get the harder their minds are to change, and in some ways cultural reform is about waiting for intolerant, inflexible members of previous generations to die. Until then, they will resist change, and lots of people find it convenient to agree with them. How do we get to where we want to be? what are the building blocks? What is the first step? And how can we trust the residents of this broken society to trust us to change it?

    • Andy 7:28 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Thank you, Hannah, for the fantastic post, and thank you, Steve, for making it available. There are many thoughtful, considered comments that already include everything that I want so say.

      So.

      What next? How do we change things? What is the one, small and simple, thing that we can all do together to start the ball rolling?

      Many people pulling together in the same direction to make one small change will be a great start. Any ideas?

    • Andrew Robinson 8:12 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Having been ordered here by a twitter post from Hannah, I suppose I’d better say something. Leading the recently formed Pirate Party UK for a couple of months has taught me a bit about how politics might work in the future, and a lot about how it does and doesn’t work right now.

      The idea of wikipolitics is very interesting, but I see two major problems with it. Firstly, it’s well night impossible to get people to agree on anything at all. I’m trying to run a party with a very small manifesto covering just 3 policy areas, and the simple process of turning our core ideas into properly fleshed-out policies is causing us far more head-scratching than we expected. Don’t expect a Wikiparty to survive long without innumerable splits, recriminations and walk-outs. Secondly, activism is not highly effective or spread evenly around. Balancing the views of a small minority who believe really, really strongly about something with a bigger but very moderate wishy-washy general feeling of disagreement is really hard to do. The G20 protests were a perfect example of a small group of extreme people getting all the limelight, when in reality the majority of people don’t think that smashing the windows of a McDonalds will help to bring down capitalism, and are actually pretty happy with capitalism because it works better than communism.

      In short, I think Wikipolitics is in severe danger of being a recipe for a thousand tiny extreme parties not 1 big moderate one. If cohesiveness, and a way of balancing the silent majority with outspoken minorites can be found, then it’s a great, utopian idea…. but be aware that it’s not going to be easy (or perhaps even possible) to make it work.

      • Steve 8:33 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        …but only if you see Wikipolitics (or whatever other term we come up with for it) as a replacement for party politics, rather than part of an extended consultation on the ‘they work for us’ idea.

        The mechanics of politics are tricky. The kind of beaurocracy necessary to run a country requires trained, studied, educated professionals. People who know about politics, political process and the various manifold bits of stuff that go on in government in order to get roads fixed and power into people’s houses and laws passed and police paid and in place and fire stations and street lighting and.. and… All stuff that pressure groups are really really shit at.

        Maybe the specific lesson here is not for the political establishment but for the pressure groups. Maybe the little interest parties who can’t form government and don’t have a joined up balanced economic plan are actually part of the problem not the solution. Perhaps we need another way of measuring support for ’causes’ and can be fed back to politicians who know what they are doing, but have, it seems, completely lost all sense of who they work for and why. …maybe the newspapers who constantly refer to facebook causes as a measure of popular opinion aren’t being so asinine after all…

        The big thing that seems to have dropped out of politics – that Hannah so rightly attributes to ‘Spin’ – is ideology. I remember seeing a Steve Bell cartoon, in which he compared Blair and Mao, saying in interview that what they shared in common was an overriding belief that they should be in power, whatever it took to get people to vote for them… Mao obviously wasn’t into voting, being a dictator, but to put together a set of crowd pleasing, media-baiting policies the way new labour did, then go against half of it, instead dismissing any failures as ‘inevitabilities and irrelavencies’ all the while doing lots of deeply undemocratic things without any sensible debate about their reasoning.

        I don’t, on the whole, mind people holding views I disagree with. Even abhorrent views are easy to deal with when they are honestly abhorrent. What’s most foul about New Labour (and Cameron’s Tories) is the same as is horrible about the BNP – they won’t just tell us what they are up to, and why. If Griffin just said “I’m a massive racist, I deny the holocaust, I want all the darkies out of britain and I hate poofs. Oh and women.” Then I’d be happier about him speaking in public, because in doing so he’d just be shown up for who he is. The attempts to legitimise his rancid views by getting on TV and being “attacked” just confirm to the muppets who voted for him that ‘they’ (the BBC-led liberal intellectual mafia who hate normal people) are out to get ‘us’.

        Labour do the same thing – they bring in ever more draconian laws, trash their own support base, fudge numbers and rarely say ‘yeah, we screwed up’, or ’sorry, the war in Iraq was based on a lie, we should be in the Hague’ – that would be the honest thing to do. But instead they pile up lies.

        How does this change? Not, it seems, but getting a thousand new monster raving loony parties to campaign without any coherent policies, but by holding them to account, and find new (new meaning “not invented yet”) ways of involving people in the discussion that are also able to add nuance to the discussion. You can’t force lazy people to read policy documents. You can’t stop intolerant people from voting according to their prejudices. You can make the process of discussing the issues, sharing the data, facts and context within which those things exist much easier. There are new technologies emerging all the time. The political will that Hannah outlines is really inspiring. We now need to social scientists to get involved, to talk about how and why people do what they do, and how we can encourage their best intentions and find ways of undermining rather than feeding the worst excesses of fear manifest as prejudice.

        Or so it seems to me. :)

        • Helen Lambert 3:47 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

          This makes a hell of a lot of sense. Any social scientists in the house? And PhD students willing to take this idea on as a project?

          There’s a connection in my mind between the idea of Wikipolitics, the Open Source movement, the social consultancy method of groups like Tuttle… The common threads are decentralisation and collaboration, and I think that MySociety-inspired consultation might be the seed that could take root in our present system. Tuttle is more a coalition of experts which filters down to a relevant group: the Wikipolitics idea is more hierarchical, if we’re talking about improving dialogue and information exchange between the people and their representatives.

          The open source movement’s hierarchy is informal, based on expertise and experience. Getting our elected representatives to listen to those with expertise and experience of specialist issues would be a good start.

    • Andrew Robinson 8:15 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      (it’s also well nigh impossible to spell check things in a hurry! D’oh)

    • Linda Nicklin 9:00 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      The press are an unelected self appointed opposition. Instead of dealing in constructive ideas ( a manifesto) they deal in cynicism and negativity.
      Blanket oppostion is a luxury of irresponsibility and is unaccountable. It is easy to be against things another thing entirely to create and implement solutions. Twitter is an avenue as long as it is constructive, enlightened and progressive. First you have to get the public to engage and take responsibilty back. That said I do believe that the “traditional” parties are struggling to represent the people. Look at the age of the people at the Tory conference and the 70’s rhetoric of the backwoodsmen crawling out of the shadows of the left. If there is to be another way let it be one that silences the press. Tread softly, represent well.

    • Andrew Waterfield 9:37 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Your argument seems to be based on a core assumption, that assumption being that there is a cohesive majority view of what constitutes a better society. As Andrew Robinson pointed out above, the reality is often much more complex than that, and a cacophony of fringe parties pulling in different directions is a very real possibility if we get serious about electoral reform.

      Also, there’s a lot to be said for a slow moving political system. First past the post might not be the most democratic system in the world, but it is stable, and makes the UK an attractive market for investment for this very reason. Our political system, as it currently stands, is not particularly prone to sudden shifts, and in a global marketplace that stands us in excellent stead. This may not be particularly attractive from an idealistic perspective (there’s a significant chunk of my brain screaming as I type this) but it is very good news for people who want to continue to hold down a job. For that reason I’d be very careful about advocating reform without some extensive interdisciplinary research, focused on but not limited to unprecedented levels of public consultation. After all, you’d have to sell change on this scale to the entire electorate.

      It’s also very easy to criticise the press, and I myself do it frequently. However, it’s a lot easier to attack a lie on the pages of a few newspapers than it is to attack said lie on thousands upon thousands of websites. The internet has proved invaluable as a tool for telling the truth, but it is also bogged down with unprecedented amounts of absolute nonsense, from the comical, to the most hateful and vile material yet imagined. Every opportunity the internet offers to spread truth, it also offers to spread untruth, and, crucially, those untruths are quite impossible to contain.

      Broadly speaking, an excellent post. Plug the slight holes in the hull and this ship might just be seaworthy.

    • Hannah Nicklin 9:55 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      Afterthought:

      We also need to make sure that these conversations, and any solutions we come by aren’t hijacked by the rhetoric of ‘choice’. Of ‘choosing’ which failing hospital to die in, of ‘choosing’ from a market of poor service providers because the quality ones were priced out of the market. ‘Choice’ seems largely to be about the decentralisation and monetisation of public services. This is not the ‘choice’ that wikipolitics is about-wikipolitics should have a part in producing the options, as well as the choosing.

      • Andrew Waterfield 10:00 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        Word. Nothing winds me up more than the idea that people want a choice of schools. They just want one good school.

      • Jamie Potter 5:46 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        The concept of choice winds me up something rotten. Choice still allows for poor schools, hospitals etc. to exist, but merely allows for those with the means to avoid them to do so while the rest of us suffer. It’s the minimum standards that should be raised equally, instead of highlighting the few higher standards.

        Anyway, it’s a great post and alludes to something I’ve been thinking about for some time, though am struggling to lay down cohesively, that it’s no use talking about the democratisation of media if the existing power structures remain in their current form. By this, I mean that this democratisation needs to extend from the sphere of new media to other aspects of our lives, communities, relationships etc. It’s no use being able to mobilise people online to speak out and campaign against Mandelson’s Three Strikes, for example, if we have no real way to hold him to account and overturn/affect the policy, or issue or whatever is the gripe.

        I’m also skeptical to the extent that it’s a case of disenfranchisement. It’s only something I’ve been thinking of lately and I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I feel that when something really upsets people, they will enfranchise themselves in some way or form; they will find their own voice and take their own action etc (though I think this is perhaps blurred by my own beliefs and drive that maybe don’t ring true with many other people). That’s not to say disenfranchisment isn’t a problem, it is, but I think apathy is also involved, even if it is just a different set of held values as you said on your blog not long ago.

    • Gordon Rae 10:17 pm on November 9, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      This just floated by in the stream “The internet is killing storytelling” Surely not? What do people think? http://tinyurl.com/yg2pgh7

    • Vijay Singh Riyait 12:10 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      When I think of the great changes that have happened, I think of people like Gandhi and Mandela. People who were able to galvanise ordinary people into action and done without the use of technology and the hyper-connected world of the World Wide Web. Even with Obama’s election, I think the role of Social Media is overplayed but it just reinforced a mood in the US that people were ready for change. I think we do need to be inspired and uplifted to be involved in politics but that has to come from leaders, the like of which we have not seen in this country for many years. Would what you have outlined make if it more possible for a Black Prime Minister to be elected in this country? Perhaps there would be more openness with this approach but is that the only thing we want or do we want a new set of ideals for this rapidly changing World both in its connectedness but also in the Climatic issues we are facing?

      • Hannah Nicklin 1:27 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

        As it stands, women, and black/ethnic minority, plus openly LBGTC candidates are much less likely to be elected. This is (I feel) largely to do with access – access to the lifestyle, to the ambition, to the necessary networks and to political involvement in the first place. All of these things could begin to change if access to a political existence was made ubiquitous – if it wasn’t just privately educated middle class white men who did politics. Yes, great change needs advocates, but it represents a collective will. Gandhi and Mandela carried positive methods of change. What I am suggesting is not that online tools are the vehicle, but that online ethics should be applied to current stultified ones. I believe wiki-ethics carry the positive solution to the stagnant political forms of today. (NB we do also need to avoid becoming a new bourgeois, an new intelligentsia).

        Openess, I believe should go both ways, and is not opposed to the building of a new set of ideals – mutual accountability, and two-way communication are the result of the former, and the progenitor of the latter, both it would give us an opportunity to reform our society as you (and I) suggest.

    • Helen Lambert 3:57 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      My friend Penny Red was at the Labour conference recently, and reported giggling over wine how a serious group of Labour thinkers held a meeting about grassroots movement. There are so many new grassroots movement harnessing the power of social media! they exclaimed. How can we make use of this exciting new development? How can WE start our own grassroots movement?

      I kid you not.

      Thinking about the information-flow idea. Politicans, the good ones, if they engage usefully with a question rather than firing off meaningless soundbites, are often moderate. The more information you have about an issue, the harder it is to be partisan. When I’ve chatted to politicians about issues I care passionately about they’ve always politely represented the other point of view to me and I’ve found myself sympathetic towards the need for balance. To be true representatives they have to realistically and diplomatically balance all sides; and they often have info of which I was unaware.

      I’m aware that what seems to me like a well-researched, principled points of view might sound like lefty frothing to a moderate who had to balance the realities of a complex political situation. Of course I think my views are more justified and coherent than the BNP, but to people in the middle, we can come across as similar. If we want to live in a democracy we have to accept that progressive, radical geeks are not the majority, and find a way of including, representing and balancing other points of view.

      What I’m thinking is that the sort of wiki or wave politics you’re talking about would be a good opportunity to open up that sort of conversation. I have had food for thought, and sometimes found my views challenged as being overly-simplistic, every time I have spoken in person to a politician about an issue I care about. Rather than only being able to find out the politics going on behind a decision I disagree with if I turn up and badger a politician in person, I want that politician to have a mandate to explain their process publically, online, where it can be read and queried and challenged if we find it inadequate. We may not like the answer but if we can see their reasoning we may become more aware of the complexity of the issue. Or we may continue to disagree, having found the counter-arguments lacking. Either way, more information and transparency can only be good.

      This sort of system would work best if it was completely universal: if you could access it anywhere, in any language, if kids were taught to log on at primary school and there was a kids section on the wiki where they could have their say and ask questions.

      I don’t know how to get from here to there. I don’t know how useful such a system would be with the self-selecting group of hyper-geeks we’d end up with. One way might be to set it up with a “starter” group of volunteers taken from all sections of society, and a starter group of politicians. Is this the sort of project we could get funding for? Like a “democratic think tank” – an experiment to see what the results were? Honestly, I don’t know how we’d get started. I worry about the demographic exclusivity of starting a project like this among geeks who all mostly agree, which wouldn’t reflect any of the realities of how it would be used more generally. As you say, we need to be wary of creating a new intelligentsia, but at the same time online ethics, the open source movement, the decentralised nature of the online information economy have exciting implications for modern democracy.

      Still thinking: thanks for the food for thought.

    • Helen Lambert 6:51 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink | Reply

      I’ve just stumbled across Crossover, which has already happened but looks like it might have been relevant:

      Crossover’s creative lab process will explore the use of interactive and participatory media to engage audiences with contemporary science. Participants will have a unique opportunity to experiment with new applications of digital media and to develop formats combining elements drawn from documentary, drama and games; they will ask how to harness the power of social networks to devise formats rich in user contributions, what opportunities do mobile or location based platforms offer, how can games and participatory media by used to attract new audiences?

      Hey, at least it suggests you’re not the only one thinking along these lines…

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